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Post by relativecolor on Mar 2, 2003 22:34:57 GMT -5
I have recently purchased a four-year-old TB who didn't make it as a racer. Right now I am working with him on the ground until I feel we have established a good, solid relationship. Then he'll begin training under saddle. He is already broke to ride and many people don't understand why I'm not riding him yet but I feel it's important to establish the relationship first, on the ground earning his respect, then in the saddle.
I have been teaching him to "whoa" and "walk" on the lead but sometimes he just plants his feet and refuses to move. I'll push into his shoulder and ask him to walk off which works some of the time. But half of the time I notice his ears pointed away from me and he is obviously more interested in something else. I was trying to lead him once and a woman was calling to him, much to my frustration, as I tired to get him focused back on me. Anyone have any suggestions?
I keep the lessons short, probably about five maybe pushing ten minutes. I'll try to get in two to three sessions a day. Progress is slow because of the rainy weather, my health, and an injury at work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by bindi on Mar 3, 2003 1:56:50 GMT -5
I can't give a lot of advice. I got my 5 year old mare five weeks or so ago and we are just taking things so slow.
Thinking about it though I am now riding her at a walk in the paddock, considering the wild lil creature that arrived at our place back then we have come soooooo far. ;D
I am not having a lot of luck getting her to stop and stand while I am on her, she fusses around and if I make her do it for too long she starts backing up etc etc. When I first get on we get lots of little pig jumps etc, nothing nasty, just something annoying her. I am a bit worried that her saddle isn't really the best for her, it was sold with her as her saddle but I am not too sure. does anyone have any advice in this area?
Good luck with your boy... does he take treats? If so that is what I would be working with.
Bindi
New Zealand.
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Post by ZenRider on Mar 3, 2003 9:15:14 GMT -5
Sounds like you're doing pretty well and smart not to worry about what other people in the barn think of what you are doing. It is hard to ignore them, but better if you do.
As for not paying attention to you while being led and planting the feet. For this you'll want a 9 or 10 foot lead, but when the horse plants, using care walk behind the horse to the other side of him, putting the lead behind his butt, above his hocks, then pull him around. Be very CAREFUL, the first time you do this you could get a big reaction from your horse, so use the length of the lead to avoid hooves and bouncing horse, but you also will have his attention. I find after doing that a couple of times if they plant their feet, they will start paying attention and moving again when you take a step back, then you can try walking forward again right away and see if he follows. If not, you can swing em around again until they decide it's easier just to stay with you. hehehe
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Post by niaru on Mar 3, 2003 11:58:01 GMT -5
Hi RelativeColor! Welcome to the training 'club'. I am no expert, like Bindi I am re-training a 5 yo Ottb mare, and taking it slow! I've had her for about 10 days and only got on her 2 days ago, as she was doing ok on the ground with walking and 'Whoa". I know people found it strange that i was only hand walking her for so long. A lot of them thought she was only 2 and not broke, and the others thought I was a big whimp ;D
I have to keep her busy otherwise she looks for ways to amuse herself, like jiggin and bouncing at the end of the leadrope. So, we've been hand walking over ground poles. She now is doing fine with 5 or 6 in row, but at the beginning she'd trip over a single one LOL.
So, I got on her with nancy (Kmmom) handwalking us and practiced the WHOA some more. That worked fine. Then I rode her on my own. This mare has NO steering and a neck like rubber!!! And after a while she got bored with just walking and wanted to spice up things by jigging and trotting...so I (=the big whimp) asked Nancy to hand walk us again, then got off ;D
In your case, I think I would use treats (my girl loves baby carrots) and praise to get him to move. I don't know anything about clicker training but that might work, too.
Hey, does this mean we have our "retraining thread"?
If so, can we make it permanent so it doesn't disappear in the depths of the back pages? Christi? Keely?
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Post by chrisnstar on Mar 3, 2003 12:26:55 GMT -5
Sounds like you are on the right track. LOL... slow, short lessons to get his attention focused on you is the way to start. You might want to invest in a nifty little training book called 101 Lunging and Long Rening exercises by Cherry Hill. It's a step by step process of getting your horse to focus on you and learn things on the ground he'll need to know in the saddle.... Good luck. keep us posted on his progress! I'm currently training a 3YO Arab filly I've raised. It's a challenge.. but I think my challenge is a little easier cause she's known me all her life and she's never been raced, LOL!
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Post by helend on Mar 3, 2003 13:23:45 GMT -5
Ah, the short attention span of the young tb.. my horse, Jiggs, had the attention span of about 5 minutes when we first started working together. He also had no work ethic. I've had him for 2 1/2 yrs now, and he's able to stay focused for a much longer time, but still gets into automatic mode where he ignores me. I find changing what I'm doing and putting a lot of variety into the excercises we're doing keeps his attention the best. If I can keep him from anticipating what I'm going to ask, that usually helps.
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 3, 2003 13:25:36 GMT -5
Bindi - I'd check to see how the sweat marks lie. That is a good indication as to where the pressure points are on the horses back. When I was riding this Warmblood with a different saddle, he was rearing, he never did anything like this before. Turns out the saddle angled down instead of lying flat on the back. I had to get a riser pad to fix it.
ZenRider - That's a good trick. I never thought of doing that, I'll see how it works.
chrisnstar - I was looking at the book. I think it will keep things interesting for him.
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Post by bindi on Mar 3, 2003 13:42:12 GMT -5
hmmmm ..... I am not on her long enough for her to sweat, after 15 mins or so she gets niggly so we go for another few minutes, to extend it and then Bindi the whimp gets off!!!!
my partner, Tom, reckons that when she starts jumping around I should make her trot - yeah right! He can get on her and do that, I am still rebuilding my confidence along with Lily so there is no way I am doing anything that might result with me on the ground and her laffing at me.
When I bought her I had to choose between a 16 yr old boy that I could barely get out of a walk or her. I look at it like it is a challenge with Lily, everyday I have a small break thru - yesterday I got the bridle over her ears so easily and when it was time to take it off she actually put her head down to get that naaasty goddamned bit out of her mouth. The best thing we have done is restricting her feed, its the end of summer here and the grass is growing like wildfire. After our ride I take her grazing in our alpaca paddock where the grass is knee high and she looooves it. We have been riding in this paddock too and I think that this is one of her problems, she doesn't want to walk around she wants to EAT!!
Anyway, I love her so much, and when we are able to get out and ride on roads etc it is going to be such an acheivement for me and her - it will be amazing. Probably a couple of years down the track but that will be so cool.
Meantime it is off to work for me - I used to love going to work before I got her ;D
All the best with her
Bindi
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Post by Skye Pilot on Mar 3, 2003 13:55:11 GMT -5
Welcome Relativecolor. It sounds like you are on the right track. I am retraining 2 OTTB and have the same problem with my Red. He has difficulties concentrating. He really does have a hard time concentrating, but outside attractions are actually a welcome thing. They need to stay focused. And sometimes it is very hard for a young horse. Try to keep his mind on you by making the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy.
Oh yes Shannon MK.... you are right, the most important part is to praise the right thing or reward and tell them how good they are..... how wonderful they are!
gee I got interupted..... a phone call to work HEHEHE
Oh Bindi.... my trainer is telling me to when they get jumping around to put them to work in a trot to give them a place to put their energy. And it works!!! We work on small circles, doing spirals in and out. Again giving him something to do and keep his concentration on us.
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Post by Shannon on Mar 3, 2003 14:05:31 GMT -5
Would have to second the recommendation that lots of praise helps. I offer a lot of praise and reassurance while we're working. And depending on the horse, treats can be good too. I think Yonkie would do about anything for an apple. When I hurt my back, I actually got her to follow me all the way in from the pasture (after driving out to her) by waving an apple out the window as I drove!  |
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Post by ClaireLV on Mar 3, 2003 20:02:31 GMT -5
Clicker training!!!! Works every time and is sooo useful, it builds confidence in new situations and calms a horse too! Suddenly you become very interesting to them! I don't personally like to give too many 'free' treats because you risk teaching them to 'mug' you for goodies evertime they see you, but if they understand clicker training that 'prroblem' is eliminated. I'm a clicker addict. The only animal I don't use a clicker on is the birds (not that it wouldn't work, its a whole other issue I won't get into here). If you'd like to try it there are a few of us here who use it and would be glad to get you started.  |
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Post by tina on Mar 3, 2003 22:36:27 GMT -5
Hi relativeColor. I have had Tango since last June. She just turned 7 last month and althou she hadnt raced since she was almost 5 she hadnt had anything done at all with her, she was going to be a broodmare but it didnt work out. Anyhow I also had a lot of people, including my own family pestering me to ride her when didnt feel either of us was ready, I listened to what I thought was best and no one else. We still havent done much riding(especialy this winter) to speak of but what we have done has been very rewarding and she has come a long way. We did so much ground that I can now walk around without a lead on her and she will not leave my side, most of the time anyways LOL. I did have a lil bit of a problem for a while there with her attention being elsewhere and I tried the clicker and it worked so great I was amazed at how it really did work. I havent had to use it for a while now but I would definately use it again and am actualy researching and trying tolearn more about useing it for horse training. I also found that carrots are a great motivator for Tango so my pockets are always full when Im at the barn doing anything at all with her. I was working on ground poles a lil more then a month ago but I broke my wrist and then had some serious health issues arise so we havent been doing anything plus Tango just got pretty hurt. But anyhow I think the poles would help also to keep her focused more on you rather then her being off in dream land or where ever it is they go when they try ti ignore us LOL. Ive used the poles on all my horses while doing ground work and I think they are a very valueable tool and a great base for any training. I would say to definately give the clicker a try and see how she reacts. It took Tango about 2 days to get the whole idea but it was well worth trying it and it helped us over that lil hill. Good luck and congrats on ur new boy...
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Post by Katie Jo on Mar 3, 2003 23:58:27 GMT -5
Hey relativecolor... I didn't want to reply on the other board for fear of my ideas not quite meshing...
But... I'm not a proponent of the clicker method (I know I know.. it works for some, but there have been years of getting by without it...)
I have your horse's TWIN. Mine is 4, and was ruled off the track for guess what? Planting his feet and not going in the gate. With him, he's just bored. And he found on the track that when they stepped ahead, they'd pull on him and he'd get to amuse himself with a fight. He'd do that simply for entertainment value.
What I found works for my boy is just simply- Play with him, I have a great relationship with mine, but he still stops once in a while.. I don't find it a problem, its not like im in any rush anyways. If he wants to look at something I let him, as long as he doesn't move from where he stopped, unless he's got his attention back on me. Needless to say, now when he stops he'll look at me like, oooo can we fight? And very quickly he realizes that I'm not in it for that and he'll step up to my side once again and off we go. He also stops under saddle when he's bored, just so you know.
You have a very intelligent TB there, he is just looking for something to keep his mind busy. He's probably got his lessons *down* already and he doesn't understand why you're still doing it.
I also found that Chili LOVES when we're alone in the arena and I turn him loose and play with him. We play tag, he wanders off, then his curiosity gets the best of him and he'll follow me... I don't even bribe him with treats! ;D
But, when he plants his feet, I patiently wait until his attention is back on me.. At first it took a while, then he realized that I actually was waiting for *him* and it was like, 'oh ok, well then I won't make her wait'....
These smart TB's are such a blast to work with! Wait till you get him under saddle! Mine is a genius, I swear! :hahaha: :sun:
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Post by Neeners on Mar 4, 2003 8:13:11 GMT -5
I found also, with some horses that stop and stand backing them up helps. Its much easier to go forward then to back up, so a few sessions of backing up when they plant their feet usually gives them the idea to go forward when you ask. Cherokee sometimes does this, he'll plant his feet when we are coming up to the mounting block, ill back him a few steps and then the light bulb goes off and AH ill move forward now mom, no reason to back up like this.....Molly is just perfect so I cant say that ive ever needed to do things of this sort with her lol I also think its beneath her to act up or NOT do what i ask when i ask it. She's just to classy for that. My new project is a 6yo OTTB mare, ive noticed her attention span is very short and she is easily distracted, but she also listens to me when ive had enough nonsense with a tap on her shoulder and a stern voice. She wont be one to put up a fight. I really cant wait to start her ground training. Wish our ring would thaw out soon. Her thing is the head flipping.. i really HATE that, but i think she just needs reinforcement on who is boss and its not tolerated.. think she is a bit spoiled.. she also paws, when she is bored (and digs UGH) but i found with my other young OTTB that i can teach them tricks with that one, teach them to do it on command (taught my other boy to shake hands to stop the pawing) and it stops.
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Post by niaru on Mar 4, 2003 9:14:55 GMT -5
Yay! This thread is permanent! Thanks guys!
Vida, I like that you called Charm "Chance"! Maybe it should be her new name!!
One more thought for RelativeColor's horse: when he plants his feet, have you tried moving his hind-end sideways? Does he know yielding to pressure? Then once he has the hind-end moves down pat, try the front-end (as in "move over"). That should "unglue" him. Or, make him move in a tight circle around you, then widen the circle, and soon he'll be walking forward in a straight line without noticing it. And praise praise praise!!
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