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Post by bindi on Mar 8, 2003 20:24:11 GMT -5
I experienced my first one today with Lily. We had had a fantastic ride in the paddock, even had a quick canter - wow!! - and lots of trots. Anyway we were standing talking to my sister and then WHAM off she went. She bunched up under me, tried to get her head down to buck and when she couldn't do that she back up real fast. Boy, now I am not that an experienced rider and a big chicken to boot. I did panic a bit, not too proud of that, but then again I did stay on and my sister grabbed her halter. I stayed on and we tried walking on the lead around the paddock but she was p#%#$@ off major time.
In the end I got off - maybe I should have stayed on but I couldn't have survived another paddy.
Any advice?? Maybe lunging her after half an hour ride or just letting her go into her paddock. Sure has got me stumped, never seen this side of her.
Bindi
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 8, 2003 20:40:34 GMT -5
Do you know what happened to cause her to react so explosively? A guy hopped on one of trainer's rehab TBs with a western saddle, Jeff does not like western saddles, that was the first mistake. Second mistake, he was wearing spurs. Third mistake, he underestimated the power and speed of the TB. One second they were exiting the ring and the next the were off up a hill towards a jumping arena and down an all access road headed for the public street where cars go zooming by. Luckily, Jeff stopped.
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Post by Shannon on Mar 8, 2003 21:21:15 GMT -5
Bindi - is she in heat? Seriously! The Fabulous Yonkie can just be a PILL when she's in heat. She would never do anything so unseemly as BUCKING  - but she tries to just throw it into reverse or suddenly forget everything she knows on a "bad mare" day.  |
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Post by Luci on Mar 8, 2003 21:41:10 GMT -5
O.K. I'm going to get this leading stuff under control this Spring. he's too nice of a horse to allow brat behavior. I have major problems with this though.
Any suggestions?
I'll try flicking him with the end of the lead to get his attention when he'd rather look at the horse playing, etc.
What about when he stays in his place, but jigs next to me? I get torn on thinking it's o.k. as long as he keeps his place because I don't want to escalate the whole thing. However, it seems to me that he should have to walk. He doesn't get to jig when I'm on him.
Then there is the John Lyons stuff, move his hips stay quiet and calm. Well, I get a horse that does a quick spin around me with his tail sky high and snorting because he thinks that is what he is supposed to do rather than run me over or go in front.
Phase II. Snap the lead and make him back up when he goes out in front where he doesn't belong. He knows to behave with my trainer, but he started going upwards instead of back when I tried this.
Phase III. Whoa. Walk Walk Whoa under the theory that nice boys get to go forward and back to the barn instead of back to the arena.
O.K., but when the tail is flagged that doesn't do enough.
Help? :horsie: :bang:
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Post by bindi on Mar 8, 2003 22:09:33 GMT -5
I think she was reacting to me making her stand for so long while we were talking. Shes gotta learn about this girly thing sooner or later... ;D
But seriously I think that it is a time thing... she is fidgety under the saddle for the first ten mins... then great for about 15-20 mins then she has had enough. She starts by getting tetchy, won't trot straight, won't stop niggling on the bit etc. Up until now that is when I usually get off and walk her around the paddock. Today I didn't, I sat on her for about 5 mins, making her stand. I really think that she was :curse: off.
Then I get a visitor that tells me that I have to let her know who is boss.. heck I try that and I am going to be on my arse and I don't want her to realise that. I am honest in that I am not the best rider, I am not scared of Lily at most times and I am going to get back on her shortly and just ride for ten or so mins so that we finish today happy. ( I hope!!!)
How do you know if a mare is in heat - duh!! -...I have only ever had geldings..
Thanks guys for the help.
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Post by Luci on Mar 8, 2003 22:48:27 GMT -5
That standing thing thing is a rough one. My trainer told me not to expect him or make him try to stand like a nice qtr horse when I first got him, that it would come with time and work.
He has increased his tolerance to standing over the time I've had him so that now I can hang out while my trainer does her chalk talks with me, or while I wait for another rider to do a course or whatever. It's taken a solid year for him to learn it's "fun" to take a break.
He really loves the chalk talks because he knows eventually my trainer will give him a pat. It's been a process of pushing his tolerance envelope and asking for a little more every time.
I'm hopeful that will transfer to the show as he gets aclimated to it. That's a whole issue in itself. However, I'd rather give him a break from time to time and walk a circle than go skyward etc. At least the walk is my choice. I'm interested to see what everyone else does.
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Post by ZenRider on Mar 8, 2003 23:31:16 GMT -5
:hahaha: That's one of the few things my horses seemed to learn fast. They will hang out forever if I'm talking to someone. As for training it, I think they quickly learned it was easier to hang out than do anything else I want them to do under saddle. You might try massaging her shoulders while you talk, I'm not kidding I can just about put Zen to sleep doing that. For physical causes, heat can be a factor for mares to be sure. But if this kind of behavior continues you might look for another physical cause. One of the shoers at the barn mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he was having the ovaries removed from one of his mares. Evidently she has cysts on them which were making it painful for her to be ridden. Not saying that's your problem, after all, Zen's goosed when his tail blew up between his legs and tickled his belly, the goof. But it is something else to consider.
Oh, and Bindi, love the accent p#%#$@ off major time, is simply p#%#$@ off big time here. ;D
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Post by ClaireLV on Mar 9, 2003 13:07:40 GMT -5
For me, I don't make an issue out of standing still for a while. But of course as I tell people all the time, training is all about dealing with what YOU want to deal with, in the order YOU want to. So one persons behaviour problem is anothers no big deal. I find that they learn to relax and stand still after a while without getting in a state about it.
Of all the big name trainers I have seen in action, I quite like John Lyons and used a lot of the 'give to the hips / shoulder' stuff with my bolshy, lazy QH. IMHO it doesn't suit all horses and one JL certified trainer I know was persisting with the give to the hips stuff with a TB mare, who decided that she had had quite enough of going in circles and reared up BIG, putting her rider in hospital in a bad way. This certified trainer declared the mare dangerous and untrainable (having been all set to sell her for 10, 000 the week before) and was going to have her destroyed before someone took her as a broodmare. I was really annoyed by the whole incident for many, many reasons.
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Post by ZenRider on Mar 9, 2003 14:12:25 GMT -5
Ooooo, that makes me mad.  There was, probably still is, but I'm kinda out of the loop these days, a local barrel racer/self called trainer, that had a habit of sending the horses she couldn't train to the killers, whether dangerous or not. We all figured she was too afraid someone else would be able to train them better than she could, so would get rid of the evidence of her incompetence. Grrrrr Not that it worked, cause we all knew she sucked in the first place. She could cheat some rides out of fast horses she picked up, but was never consistant and went through a lot of horses. Bet your trainer was thinking the same thing, better get rid of the evidence that I screwed this horse up and don't know how to fix it. |
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Post by Lynne on Mar 9, 2003 16:29:54 GMT -5
I know my mare is in heat (and I only have one mare in themidst of nine equinnials) if she holds her tail stylishly off to the side so as to advertise the goods. Then she prances about so as to bob it, tosses her head to appear sassy and unavailable all the while giving a few winks if you catch my drift. And, if none of that is enough she walks up to a gelding and pushes her goods in his face. It is very shocking to the older gentlemanly guys I have, and a disgrace all around.  |
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 9, 2003 19:00:34 GMT -5
Lynne - My Paint gelding is alwasy confused when his mare friend is in heat. They have been boarding together for almost eight years. When she is in heat she is so very flirty but when my gelding touches her with is nose she gives a big squeal and walks off. Then he looks at me like, "I don't know what I did! I just don't get mares!"
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Post by Lynne on Mar 9, 2003 19:45:37 GMT -5
LOL! I so know what you mean! hahaha...those darn confusing mares....reaks havoc on sensible geldings |
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Post by bindi on Mar 10, 2003 3:00:08 GMT -5
Well hello there folks. She did it... *L*... Lily put me on my butt!!!!... tonight after work I decided that I had to get back on her, even if only for five mins. I caught her and boy was she in a turdy mood, she was not a happy little camper. Anyway, I brushed her and she chilled out with that so on with the saddle and bridle - cool bananas!! I got my partner to hold her, got on and then the little dance and bunch up started, didn't even give me time to figure out what was happening.. I tried a trick suggested at the shop and reined her tightly to one side, that slowed her down some what, we just did circles and then eventually I slid - gracefully of course!!! to the ground and on my butt. *L*... she just stood there looking at me.
I did get back on, she was antsy at first and then we managed a tight walk around the paddock, just for five mins before I stopped and got off... wow I never thought that I would be so brave!! What is the answer I wonder, perservering with this or getting a better rider out to give her a run for her money. I like to think that I can do this and I feel that by her standing there looking at me this is a test for me.. and one that I have to get the better of her. Would any of you try getting on in a pen or am I asking for more trouble there??
Help, help help again... *grin*... I am going to get the better of her yet... (I hope!)
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Post by Skye Pilot on Mar 10, 2003 7:46:22 GMT -5
My trainer tells me that Red can not stand still mentally yet. So don't make a fuss about it just channel the energy. Red is getting better after working with him for years, but he is learning that if you don't stand you are going to work, then I will ask again for him to stay quiet... if he doesn't, we do some circles and work him quietly then ask again. He just has so much energy and go to him. I can feel his back muscle bunch before he even starts to jig... so I sometimes will start him before he starts so he thinks it was my idea. The key is to never let your mind drift on a young horse from the young horse.
Bindi, My previous trainer taught me to one-rein stop... my 2 TB are taught softness on the bit first then in a situation where they exploid like Lily I have some safety. I broke my sacrum coming off diego..... I didn't read him right... he had been quiet like a QH for so long then he started jigging.... and I wanted to get off to work him and he decide you are off NOW!!! Of course I wasn't prepared nor was he and I pulled 2 reins back and accidently grapped with 2 heels..... STUPID... no forward allowed so he went straight up!!! Boy that boy can buck! I have stayed on a lot of bucking horses, but I would say he is the best bucker.... not to be proud of it.. If your horses are taught softness on the bit in the round pen first, it helps with the one-rein stop. It has saved me many times after.....
Starting a colt last summer....1400 lb 5 year old 1/2 arab-1/2 appy..... the boy after riding him for 3 months decided that it was the day to test the one rein stop... it saved me again with that beast...
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Post by leeann on Mar 10, 2003 9:59:36 GMT -5
Johnnie
My Bugsy mare used to pop temper tantrums in periodically. Keely can tell you about the Cinteelo bloodlines influence. ;D
She's quite athletic and agile, small at not quite 15.2 (I'm 5'11"), with a short, low set neck. It was challenging to me if she got me the slightest bit unaware or offcenter! What I found with her (she is the jump up and down, stop and prop, and spin as she's jumping up and down type, not the run and buck type) was that if I used one hand down on her withers (pressing the rein down & giving me a hand hold for quick changes of direction midprop) combined with a really opening rein, a somewhat backwards upper body position, an aggressively kicking inside leg, and a snarl she gradually gave it up. Funny thing with her--she'd always hack out cheerfully--it was just when she perceived demands were being placed on her that, she, the great queen bee of Swingin M Stables, deemed too much work.
I had a Hanovarian gelding that I showed up to PSG that was a pain, he would work for you until he didn't want to work anymore and he would just buck you off. I got him cheap because of it, and I got him beyond it to a certain point because I was attentive and willing to change tactics to defuse his temper and sneak the work in, but if he had WANTED to work he could easily have been a Grand Prix dressage horse. He just didn't want to work that hard and he could buck anyone off in two bucks when he was serious. I just learned to pick away at the edges and not push it because when he was good he was totally amazing (9's on medium trots regularly, 9's on half passes), but it got to the point that I just got tired of it and sold him to someone that isn't going to be doing tempe changes and piaffe/passage. She's a good rider with a good sense of humor, and she's learning the 2nd level/3rd level stuff with him right now. I could not have sold him to just anyone in good conscious.
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- but she tries to just throw it into reverse or suddenly forget everything she knows on a "bad mare" day. 
There was, probably still is, but I'm kinda out of the loop these days, a local barrel racer/self called trainer, that had a habit of sending the horses she couldn't train to the killers, whether dangerous or not. We all figured she was too afraid someone else would be able to train them better than she could, so would get rid of the evidence of her incompetence. Grrrrr 
