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Post by niaru on Mar 6, 2003 16:22:52 GMT -5
Claire thanks for the info on clicker training. A while back I almost bought Alexandra Kurkland's book. I might still do it! Charm was a doll today. We practiced mounting block etiquette (hmmm not quite there yet LOL) then pooped around in the ring, jigged, trotted a little. She's much better trotting to the right, slower, and more relaxed. I got off when a guy came in to longe his young Morgan with tack flapping and horse flying around him, since Charm took it as an excuse to bounce around and I didn't want to deal with it. So I handwalked her and let her look, then got back on when the guy was on his horse, and she was fine. She knows NOTHING!!! Not even legs! But clucking works great  . She's so funny. Then she stood like a charm for the farrier. Got brand new steel shoes with borium nails for traction. That's got to feel different than her racing plates It's snowing again today! WHAAAA!! Looks like we're going to have ice and snow until the end of April (hence the borium nails...). Darn. :coffee: |
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Post by Einstein on Mar 6, 2003 18:50:35 GMT -5
I want to read Claire's book!! Yeah, I can read the training thread and store it all for next September Octoer when I can start Porter. How boring it is to not be able to do ANYTHING for almost a year with him. I'm seriously thinking about a project horse to do before Porter.
I would have said a resale project, but I think we all kno by now I can't sell horses if my life depended on it ;D
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Post by leeann on Mar 6, 2003 21:11:17 GMT -5
:hahaha: Here's what I do with all the horses I get off the track or just plain get. 1) I decide what is and is not acceptable. This includes: no pushing, no shoving, no jumping on me, stand when asked (how long depends on the individual and the circumstances), never invade my space and give me an ear and an eyeball when I ask for it. I am extremely firm when I need to be and as nice as I can be at all times. Most people are simply not decisive enough & are not comfortable moving the horse out of their space. The absolute worst thing you can do with a misbaving horse is choke up on the rope--send the horse away from you and follow it (making yourself VERY BIG as you do). You'll get their attention when you change them into a prey animal. :brian: 2) Do not ever, ever change the rules/levels of acceptance from #1. 3) Recognize that horses learn from persistent repetition of all aids (implied or intentional). Always be completely consistent in what is acceptable. 4) Horses respond very well to body language and not as well to more than simple verbal commands. I.E. Never use whoa without a restriction of movement on my part, and never say, Slow Down Honey Sweetie Pie when I mean WHOA DAM**T. I tend to use the terms Whoa, good, and a cluck (for step up) and a kiss for canter under tack. I typically preface Whoa with Annnndd. When I go to longeing I'll use Whoa, Walk, Trot, Canter with clucks added for emphasis in w/t and a kiss for canter. They pick up on it pretty quickly. 5) When I get a horse off the track I'll just ride it instead of longe it at first. Most of them are used to being ridden, not longed, so I just climb on. I don't expect a track horse to stand still when being mounted from the ground at first, they're not used to it and can get nervous. If you can get a leg up most will stand pretty quietly, or if you're like me and work alone, just be ready to swing on & keep moving quietly forward. If you don't grab at them in the mounting process, they typically just walk quietly along. Once I've been on them a couple of times & get a feel for what they know and how they are I'll start longeing, but I typically do a modified long lining/i.e. double longeing. I use a surcingle and two longe lines clipped to the bit so I have steering. I start off kinda ground driving (nearly all of them have been ground driven as part of their intial training), then I work myself into a circle to the left & use both reins, when you go to the right stay being the horse a little bit so they're still being driven forward as you pick up a circle. It takes some practice to get good at it, but double-longeing is extremely helpful to improve a horse's balance without having to cope with the weight of a rider. It has made a huge difference in my Bugsy mare's canter (which is pretty pathetic and probably why she won less than $200 at the track). So, SMay, Nairu, etc, is this more information that you wanted?  |
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 6, 2003 23:17:41 GMT -5
From what I see at the track, mounting is done while the horse is moving. Sometimes they get on the horse from a standstill but the other horses are too antsy and it would be a bigger fight to make them stand still to mount. The hotwalker walks the horse forward, someone will give the jockey a leg up and away they go!
By the way, has anyone else see this at any other barns, is this a common practice? They whistle to get the horses to pee. When my boss told me to take the horse to the stall and whistle a tune for him to pee, I thought she was joking! I thought it was a stupid prank to see if I'd do it. But no, a groom came in and whistled and way goes the horse! Very interesting.
LeeAnn - I have a problem with the horses at the track and my guy too invading my space. I try to angle towards them and push into their shoulder to move them off but they just lean back. Any ideas how to move them over? Some people like to have their horses walk so close to them but I enforce the idea that the horse should respect my space and I won't invade theirs if they don't want me too.
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Post by BriscoMomma on Mar 7, 2003 7:01:30 GMT -5
From what I see at the track, mounting is done while the horse is moving. Sometimes they get on the horse from a standstill but the other horses are too antsy and it would be a bigger fight to make them stand still to mount. The hotwalker walks the horse forward, someone will give the jockey a leg up and away they go! To be more technical than is really necessary , in the mornings the groom brings the horse out and gives a leg up while holding the horse. The hotwalker's job in the AMs is to catch horses when they come back. In the paddock during a race, that's normally the groom handling them, and traditionally the trainer gives the jockey a leg up. In the paddock prior to racetime, the horses are usually walked off or in the process of walking off during mounting, but you'd be surprised how many of them will stand in the AMs to be mounted (but still have someone holding them). The hotwalkers job at racetime comes after the race, cooling the horses out back at the barn (or in the spitbox). This is a "track thing" pretty much everywhere. The idea is supposed to be that if you whistle everytime you see a horse pee, that they will associate the sound with having to "go" so you can get them to pee after a race (and in the spitbox where its necessary). I'm not a firm believer that the whistling has anything to do with peeing - more like administration of lasix (a diuretic), running and then drinking 5-7 gallons of water and finally being allowed the chance. ------- re: "The Training Thread" as a permanent thing: With this board, no threads are ever lost forever. Anyone can start a thread about any aspect of training and you can always bring it back to the top of the front page just by posting in it, even if it is on previous pages or the last post on the very last page. The action of making a reply to it (even if you just want to 'bump' it back up to the first page) does this automatically. Of course we should have training threads (many!) - that's a big reason for the existence of this forum - retraining the beasts!! Lots of training threads with titles that are descriptive of what is contained would help to make this site (and forum) an even more useful reference for newcomers. Eventually, we could have a 'best of' forum and move all of the favorite, most informational posts there if anyone thinks this would be useful. |
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Post by niaru on Mar 7, 2003 16:40:33 GMT -5
Hi LeeAnn! Thanks for your great post. That's exactly what I have been doing with Charm. except we haven't cantered yet. I want to work on the brakes first ;D Charm has pretty good manners, she tends to nip when I tack up (girth) but a sharp NO is enough for her to stand still with one ear cocked in my direction LOL. So far, on mounting, she's been standing by the mounting block then trotting off as I get on. I just go with it. Today I got off and mounted again several times, and she calmly walked off. Question: because she has a neck like rubber and tends to throw it around like Arabs do (no offense to Arabs --just something I noticed) I put a running attachement to the breasplate today. I had much better steering, but is it ok to use a running martingale right away? I did that with Rita, too...it worked...in the end I wasn't using it anymore. I'm just secong-guessing myself now. Charm was very good with Whoa at the end of our ride (after trotting for a while). She halted with just voice and seat. SHe obviously knows what the kissing sound means. It sends her forward like a rocket!!! |
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Post by niaru on Mar 7, 2003 16:42:00 GMT -5
HAHA "one ear NOODLEed" that's a good one. But what else could I say? bent? ;D
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Post by leeann on Mar 7, 2003 21:17:48 GMT -5
Relative Color: I haven't found pushing them does much good.  Try taking the end of the shank/rope and slapping them quickly and with repetitively with it--don't be mean but be a really big pest. You have to be more attention getting than whatever it is they are focused on. I will allow a certain amount of leeway (but use a chain) when I take a track horse to their first horse show--they can look around all they like when I do the hand walking thing, but they'll be reprimanded with either my voice or the rope (or both) if they forget I'm there and crowd me. I expect them to lead nicely with our shoulders matched up, but I will grant them the permission to make me walk pretty darn briskly. ;D Nairu: I use a running martingale exactly as you are. It really helps to connect the shoulders to the neck on a horse that's snaking around and popping a shoulder. I see no cheating anywhere in it--it is a useful tool to help in the training proceedure. I also rarely run a horse cross country without a running martingale. Properly adjusted it doesn't interfere at all, but if they try to bulge their shoulders or pitch their heads it just gives me that little bit more emphasis! My filly (now mare) Pilgrim has the most elastic neck! It'll be lovely with more development because she'll have amazing expression with it, but by golly she can contort it when she wants to do something else--I just laugh at her because I'm a lot more determined than she is, but I think she could just about scratch herself mid neck if she really wanted to.... |
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 7, 2003 23:14:01 GMT -5
LeeAnn - First, I have to teach my guy that it means over! He'd just stand there with me tapping him and pushing him and just give a blank stare. He is cute beyond belief, durn him! I have to remind myself to be tough with him sometimes. Makes me feel bad.  |
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 8, 2003 0:23:59 GMT -5
Anyone mind checking out my horse's pedigree at the Del Mar site and explaining to me what all the numbers mean? I read up on them before but I still don't understand. His racing name is Relative Color, or it was supposed to be.
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 8, 2003 0:55:49 GMT -5
LeeAnn (or anyone who feels like answering)- how do you guys deal with temper tantrums? We have a now 4 year old that throws some pretty big ones. We put a chain on him if/when it is a situation that we can, but he does it when not being led as well, like in his stall. Also, when he is throwing a tantrum, it can be up to 15-20 minutes before you can get close enough to him to do anything.
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Post by leeann on Mar 8, 2003 8:57:50 GMT -5
What sets him off?
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Post by leeann on Mar 8, 2003 9:05:04 GMT -5
I'm not good enough at the dosage index to explain it well, but I believe it has to do with how close up in your horses pedigree the various speed influence is. I think it's Delmar that has an explaination that is understandable, or perhaps one of the racing people here can explain it well.
I've got to say I'm a sucker for the Seattle Slew influence--I've know 3 horses with him as a grandsire and they've all been super event horses--very brave, very full of go, but not spooky or flighty. Plus they're beautiful.
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 8, 2003 16:05:10 GMT -5
LeeAnn - someone had told me that Seattle Slew grandchildren were hard to control until about seven years of age. But my guy is so calm and curious. I want to work with him slow so he keeps that curious nature. He is very rarely afraid of anything. And he is handsome!  |
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 8, 2003 19:09:42 GMT -5
Air. Boredom. The "I don't wannas". It might rain...lol.. you get the point. Nothing in particular.
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. She's so funny. 
Try taking the end of the shank/rope and slapping them quickly and with repetitively with it--don't be mean but be a really big pest. You have to be more attention getting than whatever it is they are focused on. I will allow a certain amount of leeway (but use a chain) when I take a track horse to their first horse show--they can look around all they like when I do the hand walking thing, but they'll be reprimanded with either my voice or the rope (or both) if they forget I'm there and crowd me. I expect them to lead nicely with our shoulders matched up, but I will grant them the permission to make me walk pretty darn briskly. ;D
