Did I miss Varda's race?

[Amy]

Yes, thanks so much, I've learned more about racing in this one thread than all the others put together...thanks for sharing!

Now who can explain reading the program, betting and making money? ;D

[ZenRider]

Lots of info, thanks. Brisco, Jen and Katie, that is what blows my mind with how 'cheap' they sell the sound racehorses for, thoughh it makes sense too, for what it costs to keep them. Sure hold out for more money, but spend it on upkeep, doesn't make sense now does it. I've seen people in boarding situations hold out for more money, only to spend that and more on board. :loony:
I bought Zen as a coming 4 yo, with obvious racehorse training, never raced, and you know what his stud fee was to be bred. Then they dumped him at the Wyoming, IL auction for a measly $685. Good for me, but that wouldn't even scratch the surface for what was invested in him in time, money, and such. Of course I was taking a chance something was really wrong with him. And now I have many years of boarding to tack onto the purchase price.
Never did get a reply from the trainer, but I'm guessing it was several things. Top of the list being he was quite a clutz when I got him. So I think they would have been embarrassed to start him thinking he might do a summersault out of the gate. He had a habit of kicking (hard) the wall of the stall, especially at feed time and his one rear pastern would swell a bit from time to time and he'd go off a tad. Got him into a corner stall with his feed bucket away from the other horse and lots of turnout seemed to have helped that. He's not in a corner stall anymore, but current barn has walls between horses so they can't see the other horse, big stalls and all day turn out. He hardly kicks the wall anymore and if he does it's more of a tap than the slam it used to be. BTW, it seems his sire had the same problem. Interesting. He also had some mostly healed cuts on his hind legs from either wire or kicking through fences. I think it was kicking through fences, cause I had that problem with him at the one barn I boarded him at. I'm so happy we have hot wire at current barn. :grandy: So who knows, he's fine now and that's all that matters. :horsie:

Good racing everyone and Jen, stop giving away your secrets. :winkinggirl:

[Einstein]

I would think it would depend on the type of showing vs racing for costs. I mean showing Quarter Horses is cheap compared to H/J in West Palm or Indio, but eventing at the lower levels is cheaper too. So I'm not sure one can say racing=showing expenses it seems too apples to oranges. Also, I would assume keeping and racing your horse at lets say, Saratoga, is going to cost more then a smaller track, right?

I think the reason everyone is asking is because all of Exracer's seems to have a vested intrest in this mare, I know I do. Anyway, you had written a week ago or so that she was scratched due to a track issue and would have a published workout the next day. I think that's what prompted all this discussion. So some was told, kinda like a cliff hanger ;D Not in any way to ask for TMI or to be rude, just wondering how Varda was doing, that's all ;D

This thread is great I have learned a ton. If anyone has committed a racing 'opps' by asking questions, well, I guess that's because we just don't know. Thanks for explaining things to us! It really is hard, I mean, we loff these ottbs, but in reality know so little about thier former lives.

[jenarby]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff I've said on here, but in reality, our set up on the farm is ideal. Even if someone (wince) claimed Toby off me, I doubt he'd run well for long on the track. Even if he went to another person's farm to train...I still think they might get one good race out of him. The care the horses get here is so much more different than *most* of the farms I've seen and know other trainers have. It's a combination of many things that help him to run the way he does. Here's hoping that he keeps running so well!

[ZenRider]

Funny you say they might get one win from him. The guy I bought Flynn from tried to be a trainer and the only wins he got was first time outs with horses he claimed. After that they'd start losing. He couldn't train a horse to race worth a damn. Mostly as he's one of those that could train, but looks for shortcuts. As we know with horses shortcuts can never take the place of real training. Anyway, I run into him and his family at one of the fun speed shows I used to take Flynn to years ago and he had a buzzer on the crop for his kids horse. Sheesh. Didn't work anyway, the horse they were trying to make a speed horse was a trained cutting horse, neat horse, but no speed. I know I had ridden him many years ago when another person owned him. A common friend of ours died of cancer shortly after retiring (smoked Lucky Strikes) and apparently wasn't thinking gave him the horse before he died. I do give him credit that he didn't turn around and sell the horse right after Fitz died though. And the horse was in good health. I thought it was funny when he commented that if he knew Flynn could run barrels and such he wouldn't have sold him so cheap. Well, Flynn couldn't do that until I started running barrels with him, duh. I also think he forgot how wormy and thin Flynn was when I bought him.

[jenarby]

They say that when you claim a horse, if you run it back in 2-3 weeks, you are actually running it off of the previous owner's training. We've done it with success in the past, but usually chacge bad shoeing jobs or soemthing like that, which I would think would help!

[juliab]

I think it is because of the great care you give the horses Jen. You seem to treat them more as individuals and will do what works best for each horse and I think that a lot of trainers have a "program" and that's that.

My hubby has a question. He did a lot of training for track in his younger days and he wondered if racehorses ever do any interval work. He said it is the only way to build up speed and endurance in people and wondered if horses would benefit from it too.

[heartsobold]

Anyone else think we should have a Racing Board? Us racetrackers could post about or racers and others can post their questions about the sport or why they're exracers do certain things...It might help clean up this board a lil.

[Katie Jo]

Michelle- Whereas yes you all have a vested interest in the mare (although she sstill wasn't sold when she was for sale....), that still honestly doesn't make me feel like I need to tell anyone personal details about her training. Because like I said, it involves more people than just me and my horse. So that said, she worked this morning. Was unable to publish a workout sooner because with our severe thunderstorms the track was horrendously poor and I wasn't going to chance it.

And yes, showing the hunters is still expensive. But after BM's and Jen's rundowns of costs, I still think racehorses are possibly comparatively more expensive. Especially since in the end your show hunter can probably be sold for $15K or so, maybe not that much, but probably around there- and of course usually more. As we all know, racehorses depreciate in value.
And the most common saying is to 'stop the bleeding', thus stop paying more for a horse that clearly isn't going to pay its own bills.

BM and I both run at low paying tracks. To get more than one win in a row is rare (go Jen and Toby!!!!), so we can only rely on ending up with about $3K out of a low claimer's purse. Which in most cases *might* only pay back what you've paid for the darn thing. We spend a lot in vet bills just to get them to the races, even if you only do Lasix.
When I had Amber, we'd paid $6500 for her, she ran for $4K (purse $6200- winner gets 60%), never won with us. (she was a rat). But we shipped her up to Boston from FL in August, that was $600. Then raced her- $200 in vet bills, plus $20 in ponying fees. Shoeing right around there $90. Two more races, vet bills still the same. Feed and shavings there too. $150 a week for training (cheap because my father had a deal with a trainer) Then she was shipped down to PA with me. About $300 for that. At this point she was redone (feet) for another $90. We're only in October, she's done so poorly running its pathetic. Another vet bill for $250 and she runs 4th. Actually gets a check for a whopping $300. Another vet bill and she comes in 3rd for a whopping $600. $200 went to my friend who was training her, and meanwhile I was feeding and taking care of a mare on layup in exchange for Amber's feed and care. Another vet bill and she's in 6th, no money this time. I think she ran again in December or Jan and we gave up- she came in a terrible 7th or something like that. I took her home and just kept feeding her for months till she was sold. I'm sure we had a good $13K in her. And she was a cheap one. Sold her to a wonderful home for something like the typical $1500.
And then there are the people that deal with Canter that say "Oh but I bought this gelding for $25K, he's worth way more than that!" as we're trying to get him sold for the trainer as a riding horse, because this poor gelding has a sore ankle, etc. Purchase prices are high on racehorses, with such a high rate of depreciation that its hard to compare to any show horse. Most show horses hold their value (barring unforseen problems), whereas unless you get VERY lucky, your racehorse will only lose its value. Especially at our lovely low level racetracks aka Suffolk Downs in Boston.

I bought a mare that had a bill of sale from a lot auction where she and 5 other horses had been purchased for $250K... I can only hope one of them won some money for the owner, because she certainly didn't!

And I think that Jen does do some interval training with hers- its easier on the farm.... I miss the farm.

[Katie Jo]

Oh and meant to say that yes, while running at Saratoga (doesn't your father have racehorses at Saratoga by the way Michelle?) is more expensive with day rates up near $100 a day, the purses are better and generally you're not going ot have a crap horse there. So a horse that say won't hit the board there, you can send to a lower class track and probably get a win or two and at least catch up on some bills. Thjat's the idea anyways.

[Einstein]

I don't even know how many horses my father has or where they are, I'll see my him next week, I should remember to ask him! One would think I could get a fancy ottb from him and his friends, but ohhhhh no, they all go elsewhere when they are done. Silly Daddy, he seems to have no idea he could leave them all here with me ;D Of coarse, compared to the life those horses are used to, they'd be slumming here ;D

Katie, I was just trying to explain why people ask about Varda, not why you should tell us anything. What you do with your horses is up to you. Because of her whole sage, I think Exracers is kinda interested in how she's doing...hence the questions. Which lead to a great thread, with lots of people learning~a very good thing. There are som many mysteries surrounding racing, I think educating people (especially ottb buyers) is a wonderful thing.

Hey Jen, do not sell yourself short, what you guys do (weather you talk about it openly on Exracer's or not ) simply WORKS ;D I think that's why Toby has such a big following!! Plus, it is so cool to say to a friend, "I have to go home and watch my friend's horse run on TV!" LOL I loff it, and thank goodness for TVG!!!

[Katie Jo]

Michelle- Yup I know why everyone asks the questions, I don't mind that. I was just saying, those types of questions I'm not going to answer.

[Christina]

Well, I have to say that this is my all time favorite thread EVER on Exracers. Just makes me more and more interested in all aspects of racing.

I never realized that horse racing could be like Poker...you dont give away your hand. ;D

[BriscoMomma]

Christina said:

I never realized that horse racing could be like Poker...you dont give away your hand. ;D

This is a PERFECT analogy of the claiming game.

And ZenRider, a good "Businessman" in the racing game will do just what you say - get out while the gettin' is good. When it becomes apparent that a horse isn't going to cut it, sell them cheap (to move quickly) and sell them early (while they are still sound & have some value). One can be very successful (and profitable, very profitable with good choices of horses, good training & care, etc.) even at the lower levels, but you've got to have some business sense about it as well. And good business sense and the welfare of the horse both at the forefront of decision making are not mutually exclusive. No matter how hard it can be to pound that fact into some hard heads at times. I've seen owners hang on to a horse for 2 months ($1200 board) to get an extra $500 on a sale.

[RacetrackRejects]

Christina loves my thread the best?? ;D lol

Thanks to everyone for answering all of our questions. I'm sure I will think up more. I have learned a TON from this thread too.


Also, if you guys (Christi and Keely) don't mind, I have a message board on my website too. The website hasn't officially been launched yet, but you can use the mb, if you want, to discuss racing stuff. My website is listed below, and there is a link to the mb. You can be a guest and reply too, you just have to sign up to start a thread.