Correct Hunter riding Position

[pinkdaisy]

Jan 21, 2010 9:55:08 GMT -5 RacetrackRejects said:

Sometimes it's not about the pretty.

Great statement! I suppose this is one of the reasons I will never ride or coach on the very highest levels of equitation. I'd rather have an effective and adaptable rider than one who can "perch" through anything.

[TeachU2Ride]

But that's just it! Working to achieve an excellent position allows the rider to be effective in all situations, riding greenies included. There's no doubt even a polished perfectionist will need to "get behind the horse" now and then, or come out of the desired "standard" to be effective... maybe to encourage a youngster over a spooky fence, maybe to deal with morning freshness, etc. But the correct position should be the default 99% of the time. Perching isn't any more correct than slouching, and both muddy the waters of communication. The standards didn't evolve because somebody thought it looked good, but because it allows the rider to stay in balanced harmony with the horse. Leaning too forward or back, riding with stirrups too long or short, turning the hands flat or too upright, rounding the shoulders or pulling them too far back, ducking over the neck or sitting too upright over fences... all of these details create muscular tension in the human that translates to muscular tension in the horse, making the job more difficult for both.

For the rider, correct position eliminates some real problems, especially related to back wear-and-tear. And I can't tell you how many "horse" problems I've helped to solve simply by correcting the position of the rider.

[animaldoc]

I guess the hard thing about "critiquing" a photo is that it's just a snapshot in time. Might have captured the moment where a lapse in position was.....a video would be more telling.

Good discussion! :-)

[fancyhorse]

Jan 22, 2010 10:59:00 GMT -5 TeachU2Ride said:

And I can't tell you how many "horse" problems I've helped to solve simply by correcting the position of the rider.

I've been in that boat as well. Isn't is just amazing, just the difference in the position you ride how much the horse changes???

Teach - You need to write a training book! Your words are so well spoken and easy to understand!

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Okay so for discussions sake, here's a video of rider 1 on the same horse:



Is it safe to say she's trying to stay off of this mare's back and trying to encourage her forward?

[fancyhorse]

I still think she is learning too far forward, and at the canter for sure at that matter. I wouldn't be two-pointing a green horse at the canter. But in her defense, maybe she has ridden this guy lots of times and is now beyond that.

I dunno about everyone else, but I ride a green horse like this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWwZ6eyb_Rc

Hey M, critque this will ya???
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1SfKCCjflY

[TeachU2Ride]

Jan 22, 2010 16:37:13 GMT -5 BoyleHeightsKid said:

Okay so for discussions sake, here's a video of rider 1 on the same horse:



Is it safe to say she's trying to stay off of this mare's back and trying to encourage her forward?

Anyone posting or riding in two point is off the horse's back (intermittantly and constantly, respectively, of course)... and that almost always helps encourage a green horse to move more freely forward. But the video is the same as the photo - a rider too far forward of the vertical to be correct for the standard of hunter seat equitation. It's a shame we can't see the horse go under someone riding with better alignment to see the difference! But everyone can do their own experiment... close your hip angle more and more forward, then open it back up (beyond your normal position) and note the changes you feel in your horse. Good rider balance always allows the horse to move more freely - in a more relaxed and steady rhythm. The greenies won't hold it together for long, but you'll still feel it - an improved, less on-the-forehand balance - for steps at a time. And the more seasoned horses will start to swing and keep swinging, and respond more quickly to your aids.

[TeachU2Ride]

This clip shows the final test in the 2009 Maclay Finals (national eq championship). Though you'll certainly notice some differences in the finer points between the riders, the overall picture is one of balance and harmony with the horse. And note they're riding sans stirrups!

Fancy... thanks for all the compliments.
In both your greenie and show clips, you are too vertical in your posture for the strict hunter seat eq standard (at both trot and canter). For safety, it can be useful during a spook or other rough patch, but those are the "moments" I was talking about earlier. You should be able to smoothly go there if you need to, but you don't want to stay there all the time. Because hunter seat eq is about athleticism and control over jumps, what we do on the flat has a carry-over impact. If you approach a jump in that upright posture you have a long way to go to fold your body forward... and closing that distance quickly can be disturbing to both horse and rider balance (and often ends up as "ducking" or "jumping ahead" both of which negatively impact on the horse's balance for sure).

Your postion is one I usually associate with riders who spend a lot of time in western tack, where the balance of the saddle is designed to support vertical alignment rather than a more forward seat. But there's benefit in your alignment... It actually can make for an easy(er) transition to dressage (compared to riders crossing over from strictly hunter seat disciplines). Just in case you want to go there.

[fancyhorse]

I see I see. I do want to try out Eventing and have never done any type of Dressage.

Critque this photo for me: (BTW I think this is where we are starting to make a circle)

From what I can see is, I need to move my lower leg back? Square up my shoulders?


and one:


M, we need to create your own tread that we can post photos and have you critque! ;D

[pinkdaisy]

Jan 22, 2010 10:59:00 GMT -5 TeachU2Ride said:

The standards didn't evolve because somebody thought it looked good, but because it allows the rider to stay in balanced harmony with the horse.

When I was growing up, it sure didn't feel like any else felt that way. Everyone around me rode the perch. I was such an outsider.

[TeachU2Ride]

LOL, pink! I'll take an "outsider" with correct, effective riding any day over a "perch".

Fancy... Yes, your lower leg needs to come back, and a couple things will help you achieve that. One: Distribute your weight evenly through your thighs and knees and close your calves a bit more than the other two areas (but no death-grip, please!) Then, think of sitting over your leg. When you post and when you sit for hunter seat balance, you want to feel slightly more of your pubic bone than your seat bones. Closing your hip angle a little more will help, but I've found the visual of "sitting over the legs" helps a lot of riders. That way, your upper body weight will drive down into your heels, instead of pushing your feet forward and away from the horse. Carrying your hands slightly more forward (over the withers and not so close to your saddle) will help you sit more towards your pommel, too.

As for your shoulders, though you do look to be turning in photo one, you're right - they should be turning with the horse's shoulders, but level. Here, you're dropping your left shoulder (you can see the wrinkles in your shirt where your waist has collapsed) which shifts your weight in your saddle and against the horse's side.

[weegiemom]

As George Morris would say he wants to see an "athlete riding an athlete" Not the so called perfect picture.

My daughter Nicole riding Huck, he is in for training, he'll buck, rear, and bolt if given the opportunity so she has to ride him forward, he does not like flat work but will jump the moon, never refuse.

clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=20144BF82FB158A7

Riding her new boy Blue Steel, he is an OTTB from many years ago, she is riding him to get used to him he has a huge stride, also included a video of them first jumping together and Nicole trying to give up control and let him jump, I can see a difference in her position.

clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=9E75703AA7755E0B

clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=96C309A4560051CF

She has always been told she is an effective rider. I am just the Mom, I am learning though.

[fancyhorse]

The first two videos were really hard for me to see, however I loved the 3rd video! How old is your daughter? I like the way she rides. You can tell her she can come ride one of my boys anyday!

[fancyhorse]

Jan 22, 2010 18:21:51 GMT -5 TeachU2Ride said:

This clip shows the final test in the 2009 Maclay Finals (national eq championship). Though you'll certainly notice some differences in the finer points between the riders, the overall picture is one of balance and harmony with the horse. And note they're riding sans stirrups!

So who won that class??? I thought the 1st rider looked the best followed by the last rider? I have lots of respect for all involved! Its hard jumping that height without stirrups and if you have a bouncy horse, oh boy I prey for you! lol

[weegiemom]

Thank you! She just turned 16, she has rode many different horses over the years, none of them easy! I am so glad we were able to get Blue for her, her trainer really has high hopes for her to do the Big EQ. I just wish we had the finances!

Sorry you couldn't see our little brat Huckleberry, she loves him, he was the first pony she ever rode and he was at risk so we took him he has made so much progress but she always apologizes for her position but she has to ride him really up in the bridle and moving forward...BRAT.

We also won't mention her riding your horses, she'll want to come!! LOL