Correct Hunter riding Position

[picasso]

When I did the hunters eons ago, I was taught to stay in a half seat and to ride on a loopy rein so their nose could poke out. Yes, if the horse tripped it could very well mean you go over the head, but the idea is to make it look like the horse is effortless to ride.

Personally, I prefer to be more upright because I have gone ass over teakettle over a horse's head when it tripped and I wound up with a broken neck as a result.

[animaldoc]

I think that photo 2 is more correct, but I also think that Photo 1 is more how I look on my greenie right now! He's very uneven with his trot (faster and then slower) - and tosses his head or puts it down sometimes.

So, to encourage him to keep moving forward I have to lean forward a little, and to have the reins short enough to respond if he takes off, but stay out of his mouth, and have quiet hands, I have to be a little forward as well.

But you can bet that if he starts acting like a goon, the first thing I do is jam my heels further down and sit up a little! :-)

[fancyhorse]

But if you are on a greenie, wouldn't you WANT to learn back further and not be perched on their neck?

In the Hunters, I was referring to Equitation rather then US. I know you can look like a total ass in the US since its judged on the horse, but in the Eq part is judged on you. I've been out of the show world for some time, so trying to get an idea of what judges now look for when judging the rider?

I know Event rider and Hunter riders are completely different and actually I kind of expect the Event riders to ride a bit more straight since they do Dressage and usually ride forward horses.

[Einstein]

Equitation and hunters are two very different divisions, just like hunters and eventing are very different disciplines, all ridden differently, for different goals.

If you are looking for information on equitation, you can not go wrong with George Morris's book "Hunter Seat Equitation" you can get it on Amazon and it's a fantastic book.

[fancyhorse]

Different huh? Mmm, then if I am looking at a show program at it will say this:

Hunters 2'
Class 1: Equitation Hunter O/F
CLass 2: Hunter O/F
Class 3: Equitation Flat
Class 4: Hunter US

I know the "hunter" part is judged on the horse, but the Eq is judged on the rider. So, isn't that the same division?

[Einstein]

Are you looking at a prize list for a schooling show? If so, you need to read the association's or show's own rules, as they may not follow USEF's. From your last 2 posts, it also makes me wonder if this is more of a show that's geared toward western riders that offers "english" classes?

Equitation, Hunters, and Jumpers are separate divisions (so while similar in style, still different styles with different goals), at most rated shows, usually shown together at one show~which may be held over one or several days. Local or association shows may have hunters one day, jumpers another, eq classes thrown in. But they vary widely, usually following USEF's rules (without the fancy jumps and drug testing, plus don't need recognized judges) although some associations have their own rules, so if in doubt, call the secretary and ask them, the name and number should be in the prize list.

[fancyhorse]

I'll give you an example. This is the show series that I showed in last year:
www.ieshowseries.com/prizelist.htm

I believe its only a B rated show. 10 years ago when I showed a different series it was a B rated as well, but same prize list. Surely not western at all! Not one western person there nor judged western.

Every summer we have The Oaks and Show Park here which is A rated that I went to 1 year, but its too early for me to find a prize list, however it is USEF and I know they had the same classes.

Maybe its different from state to state? To be honest, I really don't care too much for Hunters, its kind of a snooze, but Big seems to really be a Hunter so I'm sticking with that. Will be trying out some Low Eventing with him within the next couple months and if we can, might switch over.

[Einstein]

That is an association show, I didn't see the classes you posted in the other post listed in that prize list. I did see this, is this what you mean?
Green Rider Division* 2'0"
51. Green Rider Hunters
52. Green Rider Equitation Over Fences
53. Green Rider Equitation
54. Green Rider Hunter Under Saddle

Those are association classes. Per the website the Green Rider Division is:
Open to Jr./Amateur riders. Riders not to have competed over fences higher than 2'3" in height.. Points in this division are based on Horse Rider combination.

That allows those eligible to be able to show in both a small hunter and eq rounds, and compete in a show, at a very low height of fences, and get to compete with riders at that level. So while that association put it all in one division, that is because it's not a rated division, but one that association offers for that level.

Every association is different, state by state and region by region. USEF is a national governing body.

[fancyhorse]

Yea that is basicly the same thing that you posted. I just used O/F instead of typing out Over Fences and left out the Green Rider, Rusty Stirrup, Long Stirrup, etc

Ok Ok I think I am understanding it a bit better. I checked out a USEF one (In NC, could not find one is CA) and I don't see Equitation at all, however i did notice this class:
102 $150 Large Green Pony Conformation Hunter
What is Conformation Hunter??? Never heard about it.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Jan 20, 2010 17:55:22 GMT -5 Einstein said:

If you are looking for information on equitation, you can not go wrong with George Morris's book "Hunter Seat Equitation" you can get it on Amazon and it's a fantastic book.

Great book... I have an old copy and I believe the second picture posted came from that book.

[TeachU2Ride]

In general... whether at backyard schooling, local/association, or USEF recognized competitions...

Classes/divisions titled "equitation" judge the rider for position and effectiveness. Horses are not penalized for style or performance faults unless they are caused by the rider. Riders in classes intended for the novice may be asked for a simple group test, like sitting trot with or without stirrups). The top riders in the most advanced national-level equitation classes (Medal, Maclay, USET) may be required to ride a second round and then be further tested in an even smaller group on the flat or over fences to determine the winner. There are 19 established USEF tests the judge may choose from. (Find them in the USEF rule book under "equitation", which also enumerates the standards for position.) Equitation classes ridden over fences may offer a straightforward hunter-type figure-eight round, a jumper-type round against the clock, or many variations in between those two depending on the expected skill level of the exhibitors. In all but the most novice classes, course elements may be used to test the rider's control of the horse (roll back turns, multiple changes of lead, striding options, etc.)

Classes/divisions titled "hunter" judge the horse for movement, manners, soundness and style over fences. A "conformation" class/division judges the same criteria as regular hunters, but adds extra scrutiny of the horse's build according to standards for the breed or type. The rider's position/effectiveness in and of itself is not judged under saddle or over fences. The typical hunter course should NOT determine the winner (meaning the fences and track should be straightforward and inviting, so the horses can show off their best smooth, flowing style). Note: "Handy" hunter courses are now part of the 3'6" and up hunter divisions at the USEF A and AA levels. These classes still solely judge the horse, but challenge him with a course that often requires more complicated striding, turns and changes of pace (i.e., a trot fence, or hand gallop to halt, etc.) than the "typical" hunter figure of eight.

Again, in general... no matter what type of show, judges of an equitation on the flat or over fences class are looking for compliance with the USEF standards because riders who adhere to those standards are the most effective. They realize there are many who can get through a class or round with less-than-perfect form, but look for the rider who can communicate with the most invisible aids - only possible with excellent form. Of course, the judge can only evaluate what's in front of him, so sometimes it's a matter of choosing the best of the worst. And watching that kind of class isn't a good learning tool for those who aspire to top form and function.

(Apologies to anyone who was trying to read this as I was modifying again and again... I'm getting used to a new laptop keyboard and things keep disappearing, shifting and driving me crazy!!) Totally the computer's fault, of course, LOL.

[TeachU2Ride]

One last thing....

Schooling and local/association shows often depart from the typical divisions you'd see at a bigger venue. This:

Green Rider Division* 2'0"
51. Green Rider Hunters
52. Green Rider Equitation Over Fences
53. Green Rider Equitation
54. Green Rider Hunter Under Saddle

... is a good example. At a multi-day recognized show, you won't find a division that mixes hunter and equitation classes.

In the above example, the horse would be judged in classes 51 and 54, and probably be expected to be more mannerly than stylish since his rider is inexperienced. The rider would be judged in classes 52 and 53, and would likely not face any tests (other than the obvious chore of maintaining good position under the pressure of inexperienced showing!)

[fancyhorse]

FANTASTIC explanation Teach!!!

[jenarby]

What M and Teach listed is pretty much what the classes look like here at the local levels.

[RacetrackRejects]

I havent read all of the posts but photo1 looks to me like a rider on a young horse who is trying to stay off the of the horse's back. I think she looks in good balance, but is riding a bit defensively. Is it show ring style? Of course not. Is it appropriate to the task at hand? Absolutely. I also dont' think she is looking down. Yes her head is pointed more down, but here eyes look like they are forward to me. I know people that ride with their head tilted but eyes up *raises hand*. I used to get yelled at for it repeatedly..lol.

The 2nd photo is pretty close to textbook form for what should be in the showring for Hunters but that doesn't make it the be all, end all. Hunters are about the whole picture and the "pretty" for the horses while Eq is for the rider. Phillip Dutton would never make an Eq rider, but as many great horseman have said "forget what he looks like on the horse, just look at how the horses go for him". He's extremely unorthodox, but horses go fantasticly for him. I've seen, in person, him take an out of control hot spitfire of a horse and have it going like a show hunter over 3'6 jumps in all of less than 10 minutes. Sometimes it's not about the pretty.