Herd Bound, Buddy Bound, etc.

[TBHunterLady]

Hello All!

I have been away from this board for some time now although I have visited on occasion.  When I did visit, I always marvel at how much assistance this board provides, the amount of knowledge and the vast audience of caring people has really stood the test of time!  Although I never forged any friendships here, I am certain many have been formed but even in the absence of an actual friendship, the people on this board really seem to care about one another and to me, in my personal opinion, that's really wonderful!

Anyway, I've been feeling the need to check in with other Thoroughbred people other than my immediate group of friends and since my horse has transitioned himself, with help from me I'm sure, into a brand new problem, I'm wondering if any of you might like to offer me a bit of support, opinions, advice or even if you can share similar stories, words, etc. all would be greatly appreciated.

Over the past several years, family tragedy and general chaos has forced me to be away from my guy, Valie, for sometimes weeks at a time.  I am fortunate that he lives at my best friend's small, private farm and enjoys the company of her horses.  And while she is very Thoroughbred savvy, she's a busy woman with a fulltime nursing career that has her on the road and I cannot expect her to assist me more than she already does.  And frankly, the kind of issue that Valie and I are  experiencing; well, I don't think that even a trainer could help, unless of course I was wealthy enough to have said trainer at our disposal on a daily basis - LOL!  So, with that said, from the heading of my post, you already know that we are right in the midst of herd bound, buddy bound and any other kind of bound issues that you can imagine!  It has become such a nightmare that I can barely handle him on my own, I have hand/arm disabilities from an accident and there's no amount of strength I can muster to lead him, etc., when he's in that mode. For example, when my friend comes into feed in the morning, he is already antsy about getting out and gosh forbid that she changes the order of turn out, he screams and I means SCREAMS and spins in his stall until he gets outside with his buddies and even when everything is going well and the order is the same, he is still a nervous wreck.  Now mind you, he was never like this when first he came I into my life (he and I teamed up in 2007), I was able to lead him in and out of the barn and do just about anything while he puppy dog walked at my side.  And anyway, when she starts to lead him out, he is at the "starting gate"  again, rushing and prancing, jigging, etc. and although he does listen to her reprimands and she can get him out, I could never do it safely.  And then there's the dreaded times when I have the option of riding during the day, (or even if I just want to take him in for grooming or the Vet) while everyone else is turned out, it is just as bad and not only am I unable to get him in safely but he is so nervous once he's back in his stall, it is impossible for me to get anywhere with him.  I no longer know what to do and although I love him and he will never leave me until the day he passes on, I am beginning to wonder if he will have to be a pasture pet because of how unsafe this situation is for me.  And, since he was so easy to handle for so many years and then began to act out when I was not as hands on anymore, I truly blame myself for all that's happening.  One last thing, I am not new to horses or horse ownership, I am an older woman that has been riding since early childhood  but frankly, this issue would have been much easier to deal with when I was younger and had strength that I no longer have!  ....any comments, advice, opinions or like stories?

Thank you for listening and as an aside, I  hope to be able to become active here again and will certainly contribute when I think I have something to offer someone!

Sincerely,

Cathy (and Valie)

"The Adventures of Cathy and Valie"

classalwaysshows.blogspot.com

[ZenRider]

Welcome back TBHL. We've become slow to reply here, but keep checking.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, no work and all play have made your boy a naughty boy. Not uncommon at all. A full time 24 hour trainer really isn't necessary for your problems at all. If you are finding more time and your friend has a small arena or even a round pen you can do some lunging without a lunge line. I prefer arenas as should the horse get excited wanting to run he/she has some straights to work out the energy or tantrum, though they may take a little more work on your part to keep him from hiding in the corners. Don't ask the horse to go fast, the important thing is to control the direction the horse travels not make him go fast. I'm not sure how he lunged before he started his lay off. Taking the line off allows you to control his direction without him trying to drag you around or worst, creating a good side and a bad side. From there I do recommend switching hands when you change direction to keep your signals clear. Find a nice light whip. It will be good exercise for both arms and helps make you a better balanced person. Since I don't have my own video this one will have to suffice to show how your horse may try to hide or use corners to choose his own direction. Don't let him. www.youtube.com/watch?v=58PdolDpC1k
The most important thing is controlling his direction. Notice how she doesn't get excited or mad when her horse tries to take control and change direction. She just blocks the mare with the whip and sends her back into the the direction she wanted.
Since my guys are pretty good at free lunging and I usually turn them out for a little bit to get the kinks out without me. Then I'll ask them to walk in both direction and trot in both directions before asking for a canter. BTW, if they've been in and go charging off, I don't get mad, I do control direction and once they've blown some steam, I will start asking them to change direction until they start moving more relaxed. Then I'll go back to controlling speed. Any fool can make a horse charge circles around them. You know you have it when you can get them to walk relaxed. Remember to tell them good when they are being good. Once we've built up speed, then I'll work backwards back to a walk, though I may transition up and down a few times first. I try to keep the sessions short. Might whoa and start again a few times.
Although I try to keep it balanced in both directions, I also try to mix it up a bit. Otherwise if you do it exactly the same every time they will start to guess and do on their own. Which defeats the point of getting them to focus on you. This lady uses much the same whip cues as me. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sNFeZYyMoU However I do not cluck to make a horse increase speed. I will cluck or kiss to maintain speed, but mostly use it to get their attention or in maintaining speed keep it. Cluck, look at me, cluck, are you paying attention to me. Cluck, I'm thinking about asking you to do something.... The reason I don't use clucking to ask them to go faster is when you take them out in public you don't want them to take off running or change speed in general when someone else in the arena clucks or kisses. I prefer them to turn an ear to me and say, "What, did you say something? No, OK, I'll keep standing here then."
Afterwards, while cooling down I'll just play with them. Make them back up with me, move the rear end around the front end or the back end around the front end. Flick the whip over them, because I don't want them to be afraid of it. Helps when you are riding and someone else is lunging in the arena. See how long I can get them to follow me around before looking for stray pieces of hay that may have fallen in the arena. Scratch them all over. It's time well spent as I don't want them to dread the lunge sessions. Unless someone is needing the arena I might leave them in there while I put things away, or should I actually be riding after, pulling things out. I don't want the arena to ever become a place that isn't more fun then less fun. Years ago I saw a horse try to jump out of a round pen, he didn't make it as he changed his mind last minute. Why? largely because the woman was on such a mission to move up the Parelli levels that she forgot to keep it fun. She would take him in there and immediately start pushing his buttons. He lived, but got seriously gashed up. Of course, she blamed the horse and eventually sold him and went through a couple of more horses before she found the right Parelli approved one. Meaning she found one that was pretty well trained in the first place. Not a bad thing necessarily and someday I might think of getting a horse that has been well trained. However, I never liked her blaming the horse for her shortcomings. Especially as she liked to blame it on him being a Thoroughbred, not that she didn't know when to release pressure.

Anyway, I digress... Most important thing to reteach your guy is to respect your and your friends space. Inadvertently, if people are consistently getting out of his way when he comes at them, he's actually learning to take your space and he's teaching you to move and give it to him. If you need to get out of his way for safety sake, do so, but then immediately take that space back, make him back up 2 steps, 3 steps, or 4 steps, in a rotation so he doesn't anticipate how far he has to back before he can stop. The point is making him have to listen to your cues, stand, lead on. Repeat as necessary. If you need to use a short stock whip or dressage whip to lengthen your arm to keep your space, do so.

I don't know if any of this helps, and I have a hard time giving advice over the internet and am generally reluctant as one doesn't know how the person on the other side will read what you wrote.

[johnnysauntie]

Hi TBH (and waves at Zen too)

I had similar issues with a mare I had a while ago. She became a total cow on the ground and a nut if I took her in while the others were turned out. I got serious on the groundwork, as Zen suggests above. Really worked on establishing boundaries and leadership - she was the type that was constantly testing me. If I gave an inch, all hell would break lose again. We did a variety of groundwork and I coupled it with rewards - grooming, cookies, and hand grazing (away from other horses, increasing the distance - and I did a lot of longing with her too, not to wear her out but to establish control. Lots of changes of gait and direction. (here's an account of one session vhttp://collectingtbs.com/2011/02/20/alone/) I was able to resolve the problems with about a month of work. I would try to connect with the BO too. so you are both on the same page in terms of corrections and technique, consistency will help too. Good luck!