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Post by Lam9 on Sept 27, 2008 9:28:36 GMT -5
Mimi's been barefoot the past 18 months, but I am going to have to put shoes on her fronts because she hasn't developed a thick sole. Has anyone used Eponashoes? What do you think? www.eponashoe.com/products/EponaShoe.html |
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Post by Goalie on Sept 27, 2008 13:43:16 GMT -5
Those are interesting. I don't now of anyone who has used them, but I would be willing to give them a try if one of my guys needed shoes.
Let me know if you decide to get them.
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Post by Lam9 on Sept 27, 2008 21:37:37 GMT -5
I'm going to talk to my farrier about them and see what he thinks. They definitely look a lot more comfy to me than metal shoes  |
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Post by filly on Sept 28, 2008 2:45:21 GMT -5
We have quite a few people who use them out here and I met the woman who created and designed them. I wish I could afford to put them on Katy as I would, instantly. The expense is the glue and putty stuff that goes in between the shoe and hoof. Have you visited the website yet? It's great!
Also, you really should have someone trained to put them on because generally the farriers don't leave enough heel or toe and take too much off the sole of the shoe. Also, they recommend you take digitals of the foot so that you can see exactly where the shoe is supposed to sit under the toe and heel. I've seen them really work wonders in several warmbloods out here who had classic long toe, no heel and bring the foot back in balance and to normal. They are so awesome, I just can't say enough.
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Post by hfhopper on Sept 28, 2008 18:56:24 GMT -5
I looked at them for the QH I had before Riley. He had TERRIBLE feet when I got him and didn't have enough foot the hold a traditional shoe with nails. We ended up going with a different shoe, but still a glue on style. They worked well, but my farrier and vet both advised that I couldn't turn-out in any mud or deep footing due to the pull off factor. The glue just wouldn't hold up to constant mud and suction. And the horse in question couldn't afford to lose ANY hoof.
I think they are a good idea for corrective issues, but wouldn't personally use them on a horse that didn't absolutely need them. They don't wear well, especially if you're doing a lot of riding on hard or rough surfaces (trails). Your farrier has got to know exactly what he's doing when applying them and, like filly said, x-rays are pretty much a must. Plus they are pretty pricey. Shoes can help with developing sole, but a good, proper trim is going to do more to help. Conversely, a bad trim can cause A LOT more harm than one would imagine.
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Post by Lam9 on Sept 28, 2008 19:06:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the input all!
filly and hfhopper - if I were to do it, I would go with nails instead of glue. Filly, do you know anyone who puts them on with nails?
So this is the full story with mimi - when I first got her, her angles were off and she couldn't hold a shoe. Since then, she has been worked on barefoot by a very good farrier (or at least my BO/vets confirm he is one of the best). She's been barefoot 18 months, and all of her angles are good, I just got x-rays, and those are good too. Except she has no sole, my vet says it's not because of bad trims or a long toe and underrun heels, her feet just don't grow sole and it's genetics. So she is off after every trim and very ouchy on gravel always. She is out to pasture 24/7 and never on hard surfaces. The xrays confirm she has only 8mm of sole, and 15 mm is normal. After 1.5 years of good trimming, I'm told it will never get better.
So the shoes would not be corrective, they would be there to add sole that I gather she will never gain. This being the case, adding metal shoes is not going to add padding and will just lift her feet up off the rocks, imho. So these shoes at least sound in principle like a good idea. I'd love to hear more opinions though!
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Post by hfhopper on Sept 28, 2008 19:15:16 GMT -5
Well, I disagree that she will NEVER grow sole. She will, given time, with proper nutrition and trimming. It takes a long time for some horses to grow a sole. No, she may never be able to be comfortable barefoot on gravel and rocks. I'm don't follow the school that all horse can go barefoot. Some just can't handle it, period. But if she's always sore or uncomfortable after a trim, then I would be watching your farrier very closely and possibly looking elsewhere for someone different. A horse shouldn't be sore after a trim, no matter how thin of a sole they have. It sounds like he's paring off too much sole each time he trims her. That's just my experience with horses that are sore after being trimmed. I would mention to your farrier that she's sore after he trims her and see what he says and recommends.
Another option might be metal shoes with full pads. That way she has protection over the sole of the foot from the pad. And the metal shoe will wear longer and offer support for the rest of the foot. There are A LOT of options in metal shoes that offer frog and sole support. What is your vet recommending?
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Post by Lam9 on Sept 28, 2008 20:17:06 GMT -5
It seems as though the farrier always comes out to the barn when I am teaching, so I don't get to see  but examining her foot, it seems he is taking off very little sole. He does know that she is sore after trims, and has recommended boots. During the last trim he recommended getting the vet out. The vet took films, advised to start with just metal shoes and add pads if needed, and also said to show the films to my farrier and follow his recommendation (the vet has a very high opinion of him). Theoretically, I don't like the idea of metal shoes because they don't allow the hoof to expand because they are so much stiffer than the hoof material. But I admit this is theoretical and not necessarily practical. In terms of looking for another farrier, I always have it in the back of my mind as an option, but the thought of it makes my stomach ache. All of the horse people I know in NC recommend him, and I don't know any other horse people here yet. His work looks good to me, but I am no expert admittedly. |
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Post by filly on Sept 28, 2008 22:03:32 GMT -5
Ok the shoes work like this. YOu can nail them on but they still need some of this goo stuff to go inside. I was quoted $300 for epona on the front and lift pads on the back. I just can't do that right now.  The epona shoes they have out now (within the last year) are a much better shoe and wear much better than they used to. THey are expensive though. I'm sure that Monique would be more than happy to help you. YOu can take pictures and then send them to her and she and you and your farrier as well as your vet can work together to make sure all is well. In reality with these shoes, you don't take off any sole. If she's that sore, I'd just leave it on but of course I'm not a farrier. Good luck with whatever you end up doing. |
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Post by Smay on Sept 29, 2008 9:13:55 GMT -5
If you want to spend a lot of money on her, just put on some aluminum shoes with pour in pads and believe me, she'll act like she's walking on air.
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Post by TeachU2Ride on Sept 29, 2008 13:01:10 GMT -5
Properly fitted steel shoes allow normal heel expansion. Pour-in pads (my farriers have always preferred Equipak) would give the sole support you're looking for, without tremendous expense.
The problem with flexible horse shoes, in addition to the cost and (if the shoe is not structured to supply it) the need for fill-in frog support padding (necessary because plastic shoes are thicker and so move the bottom of the foot further from ground contact), is their flexibility, LOL. As they move around, they stress the clinches and open the nail holes more quickly than "normal" shoeing, and so require less time between resets (or glueing, which has it's own drawbacks... the restriction of no turnout on any kind of damp/wet footing at the top of the list).
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Post by BoyleHeightsKid on Sept 29, 2008 18:42:05 GMT -5
I think Smay's suggestion of aluminum is a good idea and I agree with Teach that steel does allow for normal heel expansion. Have you tried your questions over on Horseshoes.com?
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Post by Lam9 on Sept 29, 2008 19:47:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the input all. BHK - I fear horseshoes.com lol  It looks like we are going to try aluminum shoes first. I guess I am also hesitant because I'm looking at doing a whole research project next summer on how the frog + hoof expansion/contraction acts as a blood pump, and it appears like metal shoes restrict this to some degree by making the hoof functionally stiffer, and then my own horse is going to wear metal shoes Maybe I can accept it as the only viable option at the moment p.s. this project is mostly motivated by an effort to say I am going to do research while I head to the barn |
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Post by BoyleHeightsKid on Sept 30, 2008 11:00:43 GMT -5
I really think if you don't have someone who is experienced with applying the epona shoes you will have nothing but problems with them. Aluminum is softer than steel so I think you would be allowing for a little more expansion of the foot??? Aluminum also absorbs alot of shock (if you ride on a hard surface). I would also say no to quarter clips if she's having trouble holding a shoe. Usually when they come off a big chunk of foot goes with it.
I've also read, that on a weak foot too much expansion and contraction makes the horse very sore. A horse with a nice strong foot does not have near as much, thus being more comfortable.
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Post by BoyleHeightsKid on Sept 30, 2008 11:12:08 GMT -5
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but examining her foot, it seems he is taking off very little sole. He does know that she is sore after trims, and has recommended boots. During the last trim he recommended getting the vet out. The vet took films, advised to start with just metal shoes and add pads if needed, and also said to show the films to my farrier and follow his recommendation (the vet has a very high opinion of him).
