Laminitis - Stall or turnout

[juliab]

It is Poppy again and this is really breaking my heart. She is sore, sore, sore. I *think* this attack may have been caused because the feed store ran out of beet pulp without molasses so I had her on the stuff with molasses. It is the only thing that has changed recently. Here is my dilemma. I know if I call my vet he will tell me to put her on bute, feed her hay and plenty of fresh water and keep her in her stall. My trimmer agrees with all this EXCEPT the turnout. She says the more movement, the better. The vet says the opposite. I have great respect for both of these people and I desperately want to do the right thing for Poppy.

So far I have compromised. I left it up to Poppy by turning everyone out and leaving her door open. I gave her 2 grams of bute this morning and it looks as though it is starting to kick in as she looks a bit better. She seems to want to go out. Grass is not a problem - there is hardly any out there.

Help me out here guys - turnout or stall rest?

[Smay]

Julia, when they are in the "acute" phase, when the inflammation has just started due to (whatever) cause, it IS better to keep them stalled. The bute helps the inflammation and also kills the pain, so they might overdo it on their feet if they go outside. You do not want them to "jar" the laminae during the acute phase of laminitis... Now once the inflammation subsides and the initial attack of laminitis is over, THEN the increased circulation in the hooves from moving around is beneficial. Right now she needs COOLING of the hooves ( are they hot, do you feel a digital pulse?) Bute for inflammation, stall rest and support of her hooves, either in deep bedding, sand, or even styrofoam pads duct-taped to her soles. This stabilizes the hoof structure a little to help with possible rotation or sinking. If she likes to lay down, that is GOOD. She needs to get her weight off her feet at first, if she will do it. Many people will also suggest that you immediately start soaking her hay for 30 minutes prior to feeding it to her... that can help stop the cycle of whatever cause her to flare up in the first place, whether it's her beet pulp OR the late season grass, which IS full of sugars when it's stressed out by drought or overgrazing, etc.

[Smay]

And if you haven't stopped over to this site in a while, safergrass.org/
, go there and read up on the latest research on what causes laminitis flare ups in the first place. It is very enlightening and goes against what MANY vets and farriers tell their customers... scary!

[TeachU2Ride]

Smay is right on. NO turnout while she is in acute phase. Laminar attachments are in danger at this point and moving can cause more tearing - so more bleeding and inflammation and more chance that the hoof wall can detach enough to cause sinking (founder).

I'd have her in DEEP bedding and taped up with insulation foam (pink stuff... you can find it at Home Depot, Lowes, etc). It's heavy duty, but will still need to be re-done regularly as it compresses and loses its cushion. Padding the feet will help restore normal circulation which is critical.

I'd also go with grass hay only and soak it as Smay advises (soak, then dump water and rinse again to get rid of sugars). No beet pulp or supplements or anything else. She's a metabolic founder and each episode sets off a chain of events that takes quite a while to settle back down.

The website Smay offered is excellent and so is www.hopeforsoundness.com (excellent info and photos there about how to support the acute phase). Specific article here:

www.hopeforsoundness.com/education/articles/handouts/lifecycleoflaminitis.html

Note that you can follow their directions for styrofoam use without purchasing their exact product. The pink insulation foam comes pretty close to what they sell.


Good luck! So sorry to hear she's hurting.

[juliab]

Thanks Smay. That sounds like good advice. We just had a lot of rain so I guess she did get a load of grass, although there really isn't much out there. It all started when she got out of her pasture a few months back and spent the night running up and down the back roads which have tons of grass on the sides. Then she got better, then she got the puncture wound and I was finally thinking she would be okay again when she started this episode. I just went and checked on her and she is standing in a stall with Minx. She does look a bit more comfortable so the bute has probably started working. I'm just reading an article from safergrass. It seems to agree with my vet more than my trimmer. I just wish that this whole barefoot thing didn't get so extreme. I tried it once before and gave up when Poppy got sore and Argo ended up with that puncture wound. The trimmer was telling me to just soak him in apple cider and make him move around! I almost lost him because I waited for a few days before calling the vet. He needed surgery and he recovered but the trimmer STILL believed that I could have made him better without the surgery. Sigh. I guess I should let the trimmer just do the trimming and let the vet do the vet work

I'm off to buy shavings and get Poppy bedded down comfortably sans Minx I'll keep her in and on bute for a few days and then hopefully she'll be okay to go out again. Her feet don't feel hot btw, but I haven't checked for the digital pulse. I'm pretty sure she'll have one though

[animaldoc]

Low level continual exercise is the best thing for navicular, but like the others said acute laminitis flare-ups need strict stall rest and actually off their feet as much as possible (if they'll lay down-great).

Sand stalls, deep bedding, styrofoam on feet etc are all great as well.

These shoes that Rick Redden makes are helpful and we use them in the hospital:
www.nanricstore.com/servlet/the-217/ULTIMATE%2C-LAMINITIS%2C-ACUTE/Detail

Some ice the feet for 20 min QID, some use aspirin every other day- all of that is a little controversial and you can find smart DVMs that are on either side of the fence.

Good luck....

[guiltygirl]

Juliab-even though your pasture doesnt look like there is any grass left-the grass out there is stressed especially if you have had a drought and very very high in sugars. So the little bitty brown nubs of grass are bad. No grain-soak hay-dirt lot turnout-it is working great for my boy. when he got sore he layed down all the time-which was good for him. He was upset at first getting moved away from his buddies and no grass but he is so sound now it is worth it. the websites mentioned are great and have lots of gogod advice. good luck.

[coyote]

I always post in response to "sand" recommendations. If you want to have a pile of sand somewhere that she has access to, that's OK, but make sure that she has to want to stand on it. If you go through the authoritative articles on laminitis you will discover that theories can be catergoized into "sole pressure" and "no sole pressure". Burney Chapman explained all of this to me and he (and his articles) oppose having sole pressure. That's what the sand does. Sole pressue inhibits circulation.

Safegrass.com is interesting enough but it is not something I would rely on in any way.

Do you think it's possible that she has developed abscesses rather than a new round of laminitis?

[juliab]

No I'm pretty sure it is laminitis, unless she has abscesses in both front feet. She was standing back on her haunches this morning and moving with great reluctance. I called my vet and he has been her vet for years and approved of the stall rest, lots of bedding, hay only and lots of fresh water, plus bute. She has had this happen before, but this is the worse she has been. She looked a lot happier at feeding time tonight and we put a boatload of fresh shavings in her stall. She is still moving very badly but she doesn't have that really distressed look that she had this morning.

Thanks for the kind words. I just hope we can pull her through this and keep it from happening again.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Jingles for Poppy!!! I hope she's feeling better soon!

[Luci]

Oh no! Not again. Poor girl. Sening jingles.

[juliab]

Thanks for the jingles. We put bags and bags of shavings in her stall last night and it must have really helped because she looks great this morning. I cut down her bute a bit and will give her a few more days in the stall and wait till she looks good without bute in her before turning her out. She is eating all her hay and nickering at me crossly when I feed the other horses their grain. And naturally she wants out of the stall which is a huge contrast to yesterday when she just wanted to be somewhere by herself and not have to move. So, not out of the woods yet, but hopefully the worst is over. I think I will put her on Blue Seal's Low Carb feed and no more beet pulp and hopefully this won't happen again.

[Goalie]

Thanks for the update Julia and I'm sending jingles from Michigan for her.

[Smay]

Can you get the beet pulp w/out molasses still? Beet pulp is one of the safest things for her to eat, but you're right on the sugared version...no can eat! I'm so glad she's feeling better. You nipped it in the bud. Sometimes you can do that if you do all the right things immediately. You may even want to send your hay out for testing, just to see what kind of NSC it has... it's nice to know when you have a senstitive horse.

[juliab]

Unfortunately my feed store has run out of it and said they won't get any more until the beginning of October. I did have Poppy on Blue Seal Senior and she loved the stuff, but I think I will try the low carb stuff. Argo gets about a half scoop of it per day and he is still too fat. I could probably just let him have the pasture only and he'd be fine but Indy gets tons of grain every day so I feel I have to give him something! Their pasture is actually pretty good - I don't give them hay unless it is raining and they are hanging out in their shed.

I let her out for a bit this morning and she still looked a bit ouchy but nothing like before. She is sensible enough to not run around thankfully and we have had rain so the ground is soft.