Armchair qtr backs? Not sure what to do for Pluto

[Luci]

Hi all! I thought I'd put this out to my exracers who have seen so many different things with the horses in their lives.

Pluto seems like he fits a lot of the Cushings symptoms, but he is shedding out (though some places are shedding out faster than the spring coat can come in), no cresty neck, no laminitis. Vet is unimpressed with the shedding. He thinks he is not IR nor Cushings.

He is slightly anemic. Back sore, lost muscle and weight.

After 3 days on Red Cell -which so many say is wrong because horses don't need iron, he is much more interested in his surroundings. That makes my little heart feel a lot better.

However, exercise intolerance is still there. It's way too soon to know with the Red Cell, but I don't see what anemia has to do with his increased water intake and need to pee during or right after a ride. The water intake is within normal ranges, but it's NOT normal for Pluto.

He has put some weight back thank goodness. The goal is 50 pounds this month. He was looking so raggedy and unthrifthy. His ribs were showing, tailbone showing, and sunken holes the size of your hand on his rump where muscle and fat had been. A bath made his coat a lot softer so he doesn't feel so much like a terrier. Hmmmm maybe it was dirt and not a bad coat haha.

I finally posted on the Cushings list server.

The thing that has perplexed me is the only two changes I've made are to take him off Succeed and Smartpak's IR. I switched him to SmartPak's version of succeed. So here is this horse with these big changes when his environment hasn't significantly changed except the IR and he wasn't fat so it was just a precaution due mostly his breed. Why should his coat be bad? Urination? Muscle & weight loss? Sore back? The vet just isn't worried and I'm FREAKING out. Some horses shed oddly in a year, don't worry about it. Some horses drink more. Don't worry. Well, I have put all competition off. Pluto feels like crap. Yep, I'm worried.

He is on Platinum Performance CJ, Smartpak digestive formula, Farrier's Formula -just put him back on SmartPak IR (when I took him off the symptoms started or it's coincidence), added Cool Calories, Ultium, 2 more flakes of hay that's mostly grass, and Red Cell. Sheesh! This is a Lusitano, not a TB.

I have him on a month course of Milk Thistle and next week put him on pop rocks just in case we have ulcers as part of the issue.

Anyone?

[stardustdancer]

I know little about IR or Cushings but have a friend how is a bit of an IR/Cushings expert. She is a barefoot trimmer who does a lot of founder rehab and has an Appy that she suspected was IR. Our vet brushed her off, my friend wanted bloodwork done , the vet poo poo'd it said it was a waste of time and money, my friend insisted so finally the vet pulled the blood. Turns out she was right - the horse was IR. My friend is working closely with another vet who does a lot of IR/Cushings research. If you want you can contact me at [e-mail] for my friend's e-mail (I don't really want to put it out here on a public forum...)

Jen

[ZenRider]

Have to go with the don't panic. Even when Flynn was younger he sometimes shed funny. When he got old, it became a bit more noticeable. He was never Cushings horse. The longest hairs sometimes hung on until June even before he was a teen. He often lost weight for a while in the spring as well. Sometimes just a little and sometimes more noticeable. Not sure what it was about spring, but that was just the way it was sometimes. By June the hair would be shed and weight would come back. He was fine in the fall, it was just the spring shedding season really.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Well... you know Pluto better than the vet so I would insist on bloodwork to help rule out IR/Cushings.

[niaru]

Wow, he gets a lot of extra "stuff"!
If you are worried, definitely ask for a blood panel. I remember that I had one done on Charm when she stopped eating one winter, when I suspected ulcers but wanted to make sure nothing else was amiss.

Hopefully, as Zen said, it's just a "off Spring" for Pluto! Does he have access to turnout on grass? Sometimes that's the best remedy.

Keep us posted!

[TeachU2Ride]

If your vet poo-pooed IR and Cushing's without bloodwork, he must have the only working crystal ball in the universe. I'd insist on those tests, as well as one for kidney function since his symptoms, including the anemia, make me think chronic renal failure.

Has Pluto been in work as his health has changed?

[Luci]

He pulled blood 3/25 when I first had him out and said kidneys were ok. He wanted to rule that out and see if we were looking at polydipsia. Also urine sample was ok. We have measured the amount of water he drinks twice now and it's within a normal range. I really don't care what so called normal is, it's a change for Pluto and certainly compromises training if the poor guy has to pee. When I increased his food and he still looked awful and was depressed so the vet pulled blood again to check for Anemia.

Yesterday I set a consult for mid May with another vet who I believe will be a lot more proactive. Meanwhile, we do a re-check on Pluto's RBC in 20 days.

I really think it's more than one issue here. It's so hard to know

Pluto continues to work, but it's at about 60-80% of normal depending on how he feels. He gets more rest time and we concentrate on a just a few canter transitions rather than keeping at canter. In early March, he could still come out and be a wild man. Now a lot of the ride is at walk and working on keeping him supple and for me learning proper use of my seat in lateral transitions ie, leg yield to half pass. I mostly am trying to keep him working through all gaits and moving without overtaxing.

[ZenRider]

Doesn't hurt to run the blood tests and such, but if everything comes back OK and he just seems a little blah, but isn't exhibiting any real distress, I really wouldn't worry too much. He might have a little 'cold' or something. Just keep an extra eye on him, but bet he's his old self in no time.

If you look hard enough you can always find a vet that will spend lots of your money as long as you are willing.

[numerologist]

That is a LOT of supplementation. I just wonder whether they are all interacting badly in his system. Tests are done on single supplements; you may have some sort of ugly synergy going on here. I would go back to basics....good hay or grass, a balanced feed, and plenty of fresh water and turnout. Don't know whether it would be safe to quit everything cold turkey, though. Just a thought....

[guiltygirl]

Have you checked for ulcers? That could make him anemic, poor coat, lose weight and muscle. Especially since you took him off of Suceed which is for ulcers (isnt it). Anyway just a guess. I hope you figure it out.

[Smay]

Well, having had two Cushings horses/ponies myself, I'd get him tested for it. Those symptoms CAN be due to Cushings, especially the lethargy and peeing. It can be hard to notice coat changes, but they definitely come with it, and progress as the disease does. The anemia is not something I remember about it though. Our small pony Twister has done a real turnaround on Prascend, which is the equine version of Pergolide, in a tiny tiny tablet that is a cinch to administer. MANY vets will give it a try on a suspected Cushings horse, just to see if it makes a difference, rather than going through a battery of tests--some of which are dangerous for laminitic ponies such as mine. The laminitis can come much later than the initial Cushings symtoms, but it does come eventually. I'd have him tested or treated for a period to see if it helps. And be careful with Dr. Green, just in case he IS IR or Cushingoid. That could get his feet started.

[ZenRider]

So how is he doing? Have all the tests come back? Still hoping he's just having an off spring. Common Pluto, don't make mom worry so much.

[RacetrackRejects]

I would be concerned with finding out why he is anemic as well. I would think there is underlying reason for that.

If they have just done the urine test once, I would see if I could get some strips that test for proteins in the urine and test him a few times throughout a few days to see if he's secreting anything. If you or the vet had him stable at the time the test was done, then his numbers may have seemed fine.

Succeed works on hindgut ulcers, which the other ulcer meds do not work as well on. That may be something else to look for. Has his feces been looked at for blood?

IDK, just throwing stuff out there. I hate it when vets say an animal is anemic and want you to treat for that, but never say anything about looking into the cause for the anemia. Yes, it could just be a deficiency, but it could also be something more serious.

[Big Tee©]

First, look to the weird weather for the oddball shedding - horses and cattle here are weeks behind. I'm not saying don't pull blood but just another thing to look at.

As far as anaemia goes, the main factor is lack of copper - iron cannot be assimilated without sufficient copper in the diet and here, there is little copper and to help, I feed a bit of sweet feed or just plain dry molasses as a supplement. Red Cell has a lot of copper but is pretty pricey compared to a bag of dry molasses and throwing a handful of that every couple of days. The sugar content in a handful of molasses isn't really all that much but the smell really makes horses eat it up.

[guiltygirl]

Correct-Right Dorsal Colitis-can cause anemia....I think Ulcers in the hind gut. Keep us posted Luci.