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Post by diane on Mar 28, 2011 21:05:38 GMT -5
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Post by fancyhorse on Mar 29, 2011 14:32:13 GMT -5
To be quiet honest, I don't think Lasix and Bute are really a huge issue, I mean its just Lasix and Bute. Now, the cortizone injections, I think we need to have a closer look at! Needles to the joint every 2-4 weeks just to get the horse by during a race! Eh! That is what we need to address!
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Post by jenarby on Mar 30, 2011 15:25:12 GMT -5
Some tracks already do that Fancy. I know at Presque Isle you can not inject with cortisone. It tests. Each state has different regulations. At Philly Park you can't even make a leg paint with DMSO in it. Not allowed to have it on the property.
I think it will be interesting to see what happens with bute and lasix. It will certainly drop down entries when bleeders, who need the lasix, can not run anymore. Personally, I don't think Bute is a big deal. I think it should be allowed. Kind of like a human athlete who takes an aspirin for minor aches and body soreness. I definitely think it still needs to be regulated as it is now. People should not be allowed to abuse it by any means.
I dunno....I'm kind of on the fence about it all.
Diane, it seems like you guys keep a pretty darn good handle on things down there. What do you think about all of this? I mean, if they take away Lasix especially, do you think it will be hard to fill entries at MNR?
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Post by ZenRider on Apr 10, 2011 22:40:22 GMT -5
Bute is more like someone taking a prescription pain killer then aspirin. Even so, if the horse is too sore to run without it, the horse is too sore to run. IMHO
Not sure about Lasix either way. Just remember when Lasix was newly allowed, the horses that ran without it, always seemed the better runners. Now it is near impossible to find a horse running without Lasix.
That said, I met an extrainer, OK, boarded at his barn years ago, he turned truck driver and eventually bought a trucking business. Anyway, he said that a lot of horses running on Lasix don't need Lasix, just a turkey baster of water up each nostril before training the horse will guarantee the horse to scope out for the vet's approval for Lasix. Whether it makes a horse that doesn't need it more competitive, I couldn't tell you. Even if it doesn't, but if that's what the trainers believe, that's what they will do.
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Post by diane on Apr 12, 2011 1:08:14 GMT -5
Jen I dont think they will ever get to run a horse with out any day meds. lasix cant make a horse run faster.. in fact; I dont think you could give a horse any kind of medication and expect them to run faster. I think a horse can only run as fast as he is capable no matter what you give him. something you give might make a horse 'think' he can run, and he might try. BUT thats when they breakdown
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Post by jenarby on Apr 12, 2011 12:40:12 GMT -5
Things are so much different than they were 50 years ago. It is almost unheard of to see a horse retire on 80-100 starts. That was the norm back then.They trained harder and the breeding was more selective because it was not as easy to ship horses all over the country to be bred.
So yes, there ARE more bleeders today then back then.
Zen, look at straight two and three year old entries. A lot of them do not run on Lasix.
The reason I said that about Bute is because, while it does help with body aches and pains, it certainly won't mask enough to make a truly sore horse, sound enough to run...or run well.
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Post by flingndirt035 on Jun 29, 2011 6:33:43 GMT -5
I just commented on the other bute/lasiks thread but this is something I am passionate about and support considering we do have active horses on the track...
Lasiks needs to be bred out of horse. WHEN USED PROPERLY in the correct dosage, lasiks will stop a horse from bleeding. Bleeding typically occurs from high blood pressure and dialiation in the veins in the lungs. IF a horse bleeds, it is painful and will remember the experience and not run as hard.
Example: My best friend runs Quarter horses paints and some thoroughbreds. Her well bred running horse flashem sassy bled her second time out and got 2nd. The first time she was competitive but just placed 4th. She was in pain after she bled. She was entered into 3 or 4 more races and would not run like she did the first two times. A horse remembers traumatic experiences like bleeding.
Bute, WHEN USED IN MODERATION, is good for older horses as they usually have more inflammation from aging and general wear and tear. Bute is like taking an asprin... If given a regular dose (5 to 10 cc intramuscular depending on weight), it will take general aches and pains away.
I know many people who take 1 cc of bute in pop or coffee as it helps with general aches and pains and is not as harsh on their stomachs.
The tracks will never be able to take out lasiks and bute altogether but usage needs to be monitered more closely. They need to decide how much of a certain drug can be in a horses system at the time of a race and develop a test to show if they are over that set limit...
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Post by jenarby on Jun 29, 2011 8:18:48 GMT -5
Ok, before we go any further I have to correct.you on something. The generic term is "lasix" not "lasiks" which is the term used for eye surgery. That has been driving me nuts. Next, if anyone know about drug testing in thoroughbred racing, it is Diane. She works in the test barn and knows her stuff. Bute is regulated. If you horse tests over the allowable amount, you get fined. Depending on how much over the limit you can get bigger fines and then you.get days.
Back in the day, most tracks didn't offer year around racing. Horses went to the farm to rest. Now, they they through the winter and many never step foot off the racetrack for breaks. So you have horses who developed breathing issues from dust in shedrows, track dirt and viruses. Their lungs are not given the opportunity to be away from that environment as they did years ago. Up here, people do not have to money to bring horses to farms for the winter. Ultimately the horse's body pays the price. What animal wouldn't benefit from a winter beak with fresh air and turn out for a few months? IMO this is a big reason why so many horses bleed. Or they come into the meet needing so many medications.
Last, feeding alfalfa to a breeder only makes the problem worse. I've heard the old timers talk.about the zip tie trick but never felt the need to try that. Similar to those that put rubber bands above their horses' hocks to prevent hitting. I've yet to see that one work.
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Post by diane on Jun 30, 2011 0:27:50 GMT -5
Amen Jen. thanks for setting things straight.. I was afraid I might ' step on toes', if I said too much. and now we got a bunch of new cards that we make on each horse coming to the Test Barn . they have changed the name from lasix to Salix .
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Post by jenarby on Jun 30, 2011 12:47:55 GMT -5
I believe Salix is either a generic term or it is used by different companies. I do remember
working for a small animal vet ordering drugs for the hospital. Some companies labeled
it as Lasix and some as Salix. If my memory serves me correctly, we purchased either depending
on cost.
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