Thoroughbred With No Manners

[adcooper]

Thanks for the pictures, rissa. She's a pretty chestnut. Nice solid mare, and I like her little white socks in front!
Do you think she looks a little uncomfortable in that first picture? I bet there's something going on along her spine somewhere. She's holding herself a little tensely behind. All the more reason to get a careful vet check. I know you said she'd been examined by someone, but I'd look twice.

[racehorsegal]

HI, i thought i was reading my first few post for a minute there.

There are some great people on here that gave me, a wealth of info, on many different concerns.
On the subject of you just getting her , and her attitude.
I agree with all of the above. Id like too also add that, because she is your first ttb, i would read the post on this forum and the others first. You will see many different situations and answers for help.

The best thing i learned from my ottb was patience and lots of it. with her i gave her some time off to just hang out and to adjust to her new home, while i did lots of surfing on ottb's lifestyles then several months later, we started seeing what i needed to do, to keep her happy.

You see i had this idea, that because i could trail ride, do a little showing, worked through some problems with my qh's, and raised a few babies,... that a ottb would be a piece of cake, a walk in the park.

But i soon found out that because of my lack of expierience with ottb's i was in trouble.

but because of my desire to accomplish what i started, i studied and studied, on ottb's.

My mare used to try to bite, during cinching but it was the saddle. not becuase it hurt her, but because it was different.

i was very easy with her so she would accept it in time and she did .. but i had to be forgiving and understand that she wasnt used to it .

you have to first figure out how she spent every minute of the day and how she was treated in order too fix her.

show her love, show her trust and be very, very, patient and she will be your girl for life.

Congratulations on your new girl she is really cute..

[rissaxbmth]

I did notice she looked a bit uncomfortable in the first picture

She does have cracks in her hooves I do plan on getting her looked over again by the vet to make sure that she is fine. The people I'm buying her from said she does have a solution that goes on her hooves. I also plan to get bell boots when working to keep sand out of the cracks.

People are trying to talk me out of buying her but I really like this horse. Other than the things I've mentioned she is a total sweetheart.

[Big Tee©]

Bell boots won't keep sand out of anything - they are to protect from overreaching.

Best thing for improving feet is a good diet with silca in it, meaning feed some oats as part of the ration, and wait a year, while maintaining the feet as best you can. Nothing painted on, smeared over or sprayed on the hoof will do a whole lot of good - hoof wall is dead tissue and must be nourished from the INSIDE.

[rissaxbmth]

bell boots would help a bit not much though


also her supplement goes in her feed not on her hooves sorry

[BoyleHeightsKid]

If you have your mind made up to buy this mare, please find a trainer that has experience with OTTB's. This will help set you and your mare up for success. She's a cutie pie and I wish you all the luck with her.

Boy was my first OTTB and I got him at a time when I wasn't even in the market for a horse let alone one 6 weeks off the track who was sick and injured. I had been out of horses for around 20 years and no experience with TB's at all. I must have been out of my mind, but fell in love with him on sight and couldn't even think of sending him back to the rescue. Through lots of money, time, patience, reading (did I say money) and lessons with someone experienced with OTTB's I now have a healthy happy horse who loves his job. It wasn't easy and has cost me more money than I could have ever imagined. I'm not complaining, I wouldn't have it any other way.

No one here will try to talk you out of buying her, but we will, however, try to encourage you to enlist the help of a professional that has experience with them. There's only so much you can accomplish from reading. At some point you must get some help on the ground.

You may want to also think about having a massage therapist/chiro work on her. Boy is finally getting into getting being groomed (he still hates the horse hair brush and his blanket ) and it's only been since his monthly MT/chiro visits. Feet are another big thing. Feet that are not kept in balance can contribute to the cracks in her hoof wall and as Big Tee points out, proper nutrition is very important. Hoof imbalance can also be the instigating factor in so many other problems.

What is her diet?? How much is she getting in grain (brand), hay etc. (in pounds please) and what is her turnout situation?

[guiltygirl]

She really does look uncomfortable in both pics-even the blurry one. the first photo she is resting one of her hind legs and ears pinned and back sucked up. The blurry pic she looks miserable. Probably something causing her pain-not just having a bad attitude.

You can tell a lot about a horse if you just look at the way they are behaving.

[eventermomoh]

A little late to the party here- wondering if there's any update. Oh, and Big Tee, this about killed me, LOLOLOL!

By way of example. a few years ago, we were stabled next to someone who was afraid of two of our horses, and he would dodge sideways down the aisle to avoid them. Well, pretty soon the rest learned to pin ears and make ugly faces at this man and he would stagger down the aisle trying to avoid all these horses - even the nicest horse in the barn joined the fun. The humans were no help either as we just laughed at the sight.

[Big Tee©]

eventermomoh - it's true, every word of it......and there is more. Said man wanted to drive Rambo and one night he got his wish, he got stuck warming him up. He come off the track white as a sheet and said "________ ________!!!! He KICKS!!! The _______________ tried to kick me off the bike". He got no sympathy there either, just got asked why he didn't tie Rambo's tail as it was braided with the cord in it. He was also scared of my favourite horse in the barn....he thought Raymond was mean, but he was a pussy cat to handle and drive, he was just slightly dingy.

[TeachU2Ride]

With the exception of the famous Mr. Ed, horses are non-verbal. Their only way to communicate is through body language. So the burden is on us to determine what that body language is saying.

It's easy to mistake a horse's expression of confusion, frustration or pain with "attitude" (as in, "I just don't feel like working today.") but that RARELY happens. Most horses are incredibly willing to work, very adaptable to new situations (owners, disciplines, barns, pastures, footing, trails, etc.) and only complain when something is really bothering them. By the time the average horse has worked his way around to pinning his ears and kicking out or biting, it's very likely he's been uncomfortable in some way for a fairly long time. It might be mental discomfort (being asked to do something he doesn't understand, feeling threatened in his living or work situation) or it might be physical (being asked to do something he's not conditioned for, or that goes beyond his comfortable ability range... or internal issues due to management (ulcers, soft tissue strain, tooth pain, pressure from ill-fitting tack, sore feet, etc.)

Let's look at "just" the horse.
Teeth grow continuously throughout a horse's lifetime, and need dental attention to stay healthy. Some horses have great mouths and require only a basic "float" to remove rough edges once a year. Most others require the attention of an experienced equine dentist, sometimes more than once each year. If the mouth is out of balance, the whole body is out of balance because a jaw that doesn't move freely impacts the entire skeleton. (If you doubt that, clench your teeth then try to nod your head quickly or turn your head side-to-side.) So, having a horse's mouth examined by a reputable (and hopefully certified) equine dentist is step number one.

Feet also grow continuously and need regular farrier attention as well as good nutrition in order to stay healthy and balanced. Again, imbalance here causes imbalance in other areas. Poor feet can contribute to sore backs, strained tendons and ligaments (the horse doesn't have to be lame to be uncomfortable) and prevent the horse from moving freely throughout his body. Some horses have naturally "great" feet (well-shaped, strong walls, big/spongy frogs, thick soles) and are perfectly comfortable going barefoot. Others need shoes to protect the soles from too much contact with the ground (which can cause pain in the bones of the feet).

The horse is designed to graze on mixed forages about 95% of the day while roaming freely over varied terrain. The further we take him from that lifestyle, the more problems we can potentially encounter with his health (his digestive tract in particular). The horse that is stalled and spends more than a couple hours without any food in reach is at risk for ulcers (as is the horse turned out without anything to eat). Horses that eat well in their stalls and paddocks but don't get much time to roam freely in a fairly large area often are frustrated and anxious when they do get a chance to move.

Now the stuff we use on the horse, and the stuff we ask them to do...
Horses come in an endless variety of shapes and sizes, and their size changes as they gain and lose fat and muscle weight, and age. A saddle (or turnout blanket, or any other piece of equipment) that fits well for one time period may not fit well in another. Even equipment that is custom-made needs to be periodically checked and adjusted according to the changes in the horse.

If we don't know a horse well, we may expect him to behave in a way that he's unfamiliar with. The "natural" horse doesn't have to worry about much in the way of manners... don't try to eat what a more dominant horse wants is about it! Everything else is learned by what we choose to teach. Some people teach their horses to stand dead-still for mounting. Some don't. Some people teach their horses to walk quietly on a long rein. Some don't. Some people teach their horses to stand tied no matter where or to what. Some don't. If you don't know a horse's full training background, it's always better to assume he doesn't know much and start from the beginning. If you're teaching something the horse already knows how to do well, it'll be evident and you can move right along to the next step. If you're teaching something he hasn't been asked to do before, or that hasn't been learned to your standard, you'll need to be patient and go through the process of giving clear, consistent direction with praise and appropriate correction until he does learn it. If you don't know how to teach, don't guess. Especially with a horse who may have already received poor or incomplete training, it's much faster, easier and more pleasant for horse and human if you get professional help.

When a horse experiences difficulty with any of these things (horse only, or related to what we do with him), he usually begins to tell us right away. The observant horse owner will know - the moment she sees her horse - the horse is comfortable and content or hurting or upset or worried, etc. Recognizing something is wrong right away and dealing with it in a calm, efficient manner restores the horse's confidence in us. But not all horses are so lucky. Many of them pass from one owner to the next without ever finding somebody who really understands how to listen. So the horse gets louder and louder and louder in the protest and ultimately gets labeled as having an "attitude". Some horses go only as far as evil faces and threats, or jigging or rooting or rushing. Others keep escalating until they're actively kicking, biting, rearing, bucking, bolting, balking, etc.

You've found a horse you really like. Now it's your job to form a good working partnership with her. You may have to do a little work to undo some of the mistakes that have already been made with her, or install some new buttons, but that's part of the responsibility of owning a horse (and can be part of the fun). Learning to listen is Step One.

[dupuis22]

One of the first things new owners have to learn is that OTTBs ahve been "bossed" fro m the beginning, and if you want to teach them anything new,manners included
1. They have to learn to trust you. 2. They have to learn to trust you I can t say that enough time, and then you have to get theri respect...and getting respect at the track is a whole different ball game than in other horse endeavore....In other words, YOU need to learn where the horse had been and how they earned before you got them,,,and then maybe theri lack of manners will make more sense to you, aND YOU CAN BEGIN TO WORK TOGETHER ON CHANGING THE HABITS, that the animal formed as the result of being a racehorse....

[ZenRider]

LOL, she does have that 'mare' face going in that one pic doesn't she? Also, it's apparent she's been off the track for some time and showed fairly well at whatever she was being shown in. Hunters? Perhaps her last owner wasn't so worried about ground manners and just worked around her quirks. Perhaps it's just part of the mare's personality. You will have to decide if she has a personality you can live with.
Other then that, what everyone else said and...
As for the girthiness, just give it time and patience. Even if everything fits now, if she's had a bad experience it takes an unbelievable amount of time for some of them to let some of those things go. Some never entirely do. Just time patience and consistency in everything you do with her is all it will need to get her to improve. Tighten the girth one hole at a time instead of trying to take it up all at once. I tighten on both sides of the girth to ensure as much even tension one end to the other as possible. I also stretch each foreleg gently forward after tightening to ensure the skin under the girth is as wrinkle free as possible. Grooming, take your time and give her breaks and pay attention to exactly what makes her more jittery and think of how to make that particular thing a more enjoyable thing for her. Talk to her a lot. Horses that are nervous during grooming often respond well to you talking to them a lot. Tell the a story if you can't think of anything to talk about, just keep talking. There may be some things that never go away entirely, but most should at the least improve over time.

The simplest way to show you are 'boss', I kinda hate that term, but whatever. Anyway, the simplest way is to never let her make you move if you can avoid it. If you have to move out of her way for safety sake, always come back and make her move away from you. Even if what she is doing looks cute and loving, if she's moving your feet, she's training you. You don't even have to make a big deal out of it. Just a simple back a few steps or move sideways a few steps is all that's usually needed. It's all about being a better leader then it is about being boss or making a big show of it.

Good luck with your mare.