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Post by Johnnie on Mar 5, 2003 12:36:50 GMT -5
I'm bored, it's raining, so I thought I would post some horsie pics. Some of you have seen some of these before. My trainer's son on his ** horse schooling some Prelim stuff. Notice he has lost both stirrups. I hate him..lol.  My trainer's son again with Max aka Sexy (the horse, not the guy). This is the first part of a combination. The other matching skinny was about a stride over.  A Hunter trainer just told us that this horse looked wormy and too skinny. I'm sorry if he is not show Hunter fat, but he has to be able to gallop quite a way at a good rate of speed, but, yeah, ok...you can judge for yourself.  Same horse...  Kim Vinoski-Severson at the Camino 3-day the weekend after she won Rolex.  My riding buddy, Ali-girl. Maybe you guys can help her out. She knows that she is holding him in too tight over jumps, but he takes off with her if she doesn't. She's wondering if she should try more bit or....any suggestions?  Pete's Scamp. Cute Welsh pony from the Dandardel/Farnley lines (top Hunter Pony lines). Sadly, he is for sale.  Ok, I'm done for now.... |
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Post by adcooper on Mar 5, 2003 13:09:52 GMT -5
Wormy? Puh-LEEEZE! That chestnut is lovely. Ignore the hunter trainer's remark. We all say dumb things sometimes!
Oh, all these horses are lovely! The trainer's son...yeah we hate him. Ali's grip? Well, here's the dressage dork's remedy for everything: fix the obedience issue with training, not hardware. Having made that sweeping generalization, I must now admit I don't know HOW to accomplish the task! But I notice the rider's toes are turned out pretty far. Is she telling him with her heels to go bigger than she really wants him to? He's just beautiful, and looks honest. And fast! Oh, I would love to follow you and carry your hoof pick around for your sometime, just to see what goes on in your world! SO cool!
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Post by Smay on Mar 5, 2003 13:17:26 GMT -5
Oh, you can't sell Twister's Twin Pony! (except for the roan spots!) He is a doll baby! Oh well. Boo hoo. Now the gorgeous chestnut looks perfect and part arab, is he? And why did you blur out the rider? I loff Kim Vinoski. She was cool at Rolex too. For the death-grip friend, I dont' have a clue, but maybe she could try doing a crest release and giving the poor horse some room? He looks like he's cranked down so hard he's going to do a somersault! hahahaha Just kidding Johnnie's Friend....sorry!
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 5, 2003 13:28:56 GMT -5
Thank you! I felt bad at first when I heard what the trainer said, but then I looked at the horse, and my first impression was "is this lady on crack?". No he's not a heavy horse, but I think he is a good weight for his frame, and he is fit. Most of all, I think he looks healthy. I mean that isn't laser sheen on that coat.
Ali's horse, Shiloh, is fine in stadium and dressage, he only gets strong on XC which is why she was thinking maybe a stronger bit. He's fine if you go jump by jump schooling, but when you are galloping, he gets a bit insane- like 5 pulley reins to get him back sometimes. She rides him in a smooth eggbutt snaffle.
Thanks, but my life is not interesting. I have met some awesome people (Kim V, Ralph Hill, Bruce Davidson Sr, Mike Winter, Phillip Dutton, etc..) through eventing. They are all so nice.
The chestnut is actually a TB/QH crop out cross. He does have that Arabish head though. Rider is my trainer, and I blurred her since I didn't ask if it was ok to post the pic of her. I took the picture, so I could, but some people can be funny about posting pictures of them riding without them knowing.
I've been trying to get Ali to do a modified auto release, as a crest release is just no practical XC. Plus, after a while the jumps get big enough that you can't release enough to get out of the horses way. Yes, he is way too cranked in!
Kim V is sweet. I got to speak with her at Camino and I couldn't believe how nice she was and how genuine she is.
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Post by ZenRider on Mar 5, 2003 14:13:56 GMT -5
Puleez, wormy skinny horse. :hahaha: I'm thinking she's related to the owner of my barn. ;D The horse looks great to me. Only thing I can say about the rushing fences, and I'm getting this from auditing Jim Graham's Clinic last weekend (Now I want to ride in one, but he's not coming back to Chicago until October. Then again, I might actually be able to afford it by then and Zen was lame this time, abscess and all). Now he didn't do cross country, but I'd think the principle would be the same. So, if she has a course she can practice on, she might try stopping him after jumping a fence. Do that several times to get him paying attention to her again, instead of thinking 'I'm over the fence and I'm outta here'. I'm guessing, she probably does this schooling for stadium, but hasn't really tried it out in the field. Just a thought anyway. Not an expert, just a trial and error kinda person.  |
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Post by Smay on Mar 5, 2003 14:50:15 GMT -5
Wow, that boy just wants to fly huh? That sounds so funny - "five pulley reins to get him slowed" !!!! I see a LOT of Xc people with a stronger bit, so you're right, he probably just needs it... What would it be, something like a Kimberwicke? How about a gag! I have no clue, but I bet it's hard to rate a horse who wants to really GO on the XC course! I mean, think of it...you're a fit thoroughbred who loves to run. Your rider points you at some big jumps with LOTS of nice open space around them in which to REALLY get some speed going. How FUN for a horse! No wonder they love to move out!
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 5, 2003 15:11:52 GMT -5
Hey Zen! A very good exercise that we do use often, but mainly when schooling stadium. Shiloh is a pretty complex horse to ride. He's a bit of a worrier and if you start pulling him up after jumps on XC, then he starts fretting and gets even worse. Jigging, half-rearing, bolting, spinning, trying to buck.... Phillip Dutton had tried a similar approach at his clinic, but had to abandon it as Shiloh became way too stressed from worrying about it, and started to stress colic, so they had to dismiss themselves from the rest of XC schooling and treat him.
SMay- You should hear Alison describing her rides on Shiloh. "fffhhhwwuummm, and we're off.. pulley rein, please stop, pulley rein, please please stop, pulley rein, you really need to stop, pulley rein, why won't you stop?" She used to ride him in a broken mouth kimberwicke when she first got him because he ran away with her and dumped her pretty badly, but as they got more in sync and she got more confidence, they switched to less bit. Now she has moved up 2 levels and with the higher jumps, comes a "higher" Shiloh. Our trainer originally said, more bit, but then said no, that Alison just needed to learn how to control him better, but didn't actually give any tips as to how she is supposed to do that. I'm kind of wondering about what ADCOOPER said about Ali's leg position, but I don't know. Worth looking into I think.
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Post by adcooper on Mar 5, 2003 22:33:33 GMT -5
Belated thought about Ali's rushing horse. The issue probably starts several strides before the moment we see in the photo. Horses don't shift gears in midair. (I know I know! It sure SEEMS like they do somtimes!) This horse is building steam for his speed evasion (and I would call excessive speed an evasion, even if it is aimed in the "right" direction) before the jump. By the time he's airborn, she's fighting him, and when he lands, he's committed to the race. What if she rethinks her approach, slowing him and rocking him back in an exaggerated way well before the jump? I have a hunch this problem is more about approach than release.
--All super humble opinion, by the way!
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Post by ZenRider on Mar 5, 2003 22:57:56 GMT -5
Well, it was just a thought. Much as it's not my favorite way to go, sounds like a stronger bit for cross-country may be in order. It's just figuring out the right one for the horses behavior, so as not to compromise them at the jump.
I see a lot of gags on cross-country courses and the occasional big elevator bit. Only thing about going with a stronger bit, the rider has to be that much more sensitive with their hands.
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 5, 2003 23:10:28 GMT -5
I think what Adcooper is saying is dead on. She needs to control the horse before he gets to the jump. I think we just need to find a happy medium between him freaking because he's being held and him wanting to run off.
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Post by willow0237 on Mar 5, 2003 23:37:32 GMT -5
well, i know that event riders always sit back so that if they get a stop they dont fly over the handlebars so to speak, but i ride jumpers, and my horse FLIES over fences when i sit. if i get off his back he doesnt rush as much, when you sit up you drive the horse forward.
Amanda
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 5, 2003 23:59:02 GMT -5
She should just take the horse back to the basics. Take the horse over a jump, stop him after a couple of strides, go back and do it again. Some horses just get excited. The Warmblood I rode had a gag bit but it didn't help with how strong he was. The gag bit is designed to keep the horse from keeping his head too low and raising it too high. But this Warmblood was a schoolmaster. He knew how to collect himself and therefore, this made the gag bit useless. We discovered that a curb bit worked the best. It was a lot of hard work, especially on my arms! Had to do work with half-halts and downward transitions. Now it only takes a little "sponging" to bring him under control. There is nothing like riding a horse who knows how to collect himself. He even does it when he is lunged and set loose!
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Post by Einstein on Mar 6, 2003 0:25:09 GMT -5
Johnnie, I took a clinic with Frank Chapot, and he gave a woman in my section the best advice. He set up a combination, and she had to trot in and he said, "Let go." After a few times of her horse whacking himself, he started to rock back, slow down, and be more careful. There was more to it then just that. If you're interested I'll post it, but don't want to bore anyone ;D I've done this at home with my trainers too, and it does tons for horses that rush before and after the fence. We were in the bigger section, but we all had to do this at 3 foot and 3'6 before moving on. I think as Amatuers, we want to do too much. Instead we need to learn to ride and stay out of horses way. You know? BTW only 1 pic showed up for me, the trainer's son and the death grip, so I didn't see your friend  |
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Post by Johnnie on Mar 6, 2003 0:29:45 GMT -5
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being argumentative or anything. Like I said to Zen, I think the exercise in itself is great, and we use it for stadium alot when the horses start rushing. This horse does not rush stadium, and does not rush our XC mini-course. He does it at shows on XC, and you can't really school at shows. Sort of the "you have to ride the horse that showed up" thing.
I don't know. We'll just play with some of the things suggested here, and then maybe put the kimberwicke back in the bridle. She never used the slots on it, just the curb chain.
I've also wondered if it could be a fear thing. This horse had turned into a stopper after getting caught in a jump on XC. It took a really long time to get him over that, and they had to move back down to crossrails and start all over.
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Post by relativecolor on Mar 6, 2003 0:41:35 GMT -5
Retraction. It wasn't a curb I used. It was a Kimberwicke! I get confused with so many bits out there.  Maybe it is not the horse that is fearful but the rider? Maybe she expects the horse to rush and the horse senses this. |
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Maybe it is not the horse that is fearful but the rider? Maybe she expects the horse to rush and the horse senses this.