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Post by kdcarpe on Apr 16, 2010 12:09:16 GMT -5
I recently adopted Ice Eagle. He turned 15 Tuesday. Hes a great little horse. He is in a colt breaking class at my college and is coming along nicely.
I am able to mount him without to much moving and we ride out in the open with very little problems....He is a little barn sour when were riding back but we are getting over that...He is getting better at turning and steering and is coming along but we have one major problem.
I am only 4'11'' and he is 16 hands. He usually gets a bucket of feed before class and I tend to his pre riding needs. I groom him, give him a good look over to make sure hes sound and whatnot. I saddle him up while hes eating and he could care less. Since I am so small I usually have to go in front, behind sometimes partially underneath him to do whatever and he could care less....Hes a very laid back thoroughbred with great manners and an awesome personality.
But when I try to bridle him its a whole different story. He will let me bring the bridle up around his nose but as soon as I try to slip the bit into his mouth its world war 3. I have tried patience(which takes almost two hours). Having someone help me hold him so he couldnt throw his head as much. Tried persuading him with a sweetened bit. I have pushed on him to let him know his behavior is unacceptable.I have tried just roughing it out and keeping the bit at his nose but he still refuses to let me put it in.
Yesterday I tried to wait it out and after an hour he blew up and tried to buck and jump around as he was throwing a temper tantrum. This morning I tried to use a stud chain to let him know i could reach down and pull it if he acted up and he had another fit.
His teet have been floated. He responds best to a regular snaffle so that is what I have been using on him. Im at a loss here as he has never done this before. Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks
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Post by Goalie on Apr 16, 2010 13:11:01 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and move this to the main board as more will see it and respond to you.
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Post by jleegriffith on Apr 16, 2010 13:31:19 GMT -5
How about standing on a stool or bucket? Boppus, my big 16.3 h tb, still plays the tall game with me and he has the ability to stretch his head so far up I really can't reason with him. I just get the bucket out and he knows I have won and gives up. When I take him places I try to bridle him in the trailer if I don't have a bucket that way he can't put his head up so high I can't reach him.
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Post by Smay on Apr 16, 2010 13:37:34 GMT -5
Boy, I know there's a whole procedure to train young horses to take the bit, but this sounds more like an older horse who has become very stubborn about it and is now fighting you. I really don't think that the whole "feeding a bucket of feed" and tacking up while he's eating is a good idea. I'm in favor of feeding horses and leaving them completely alone while they are are eating. That's HIS time. I know you're not riding him hard yet either, but probably feeding him right before his work is not good either. He might get used to being fed a "snack", then brought out of his stall, groomed, tacked up and worked with, a little at a time, to train him back to taking the bridle. Yes, with your small size you should have help with this. There is no way in heck I would fight for two hours to bridle a horse! Something is going very wrong there!
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Post by elizabeth_h on Apr 16, 2010 13:40:52 GMT -5
Since he otherwise seems to be a sensible type, my first guess is that something in his mouth is bothering him. Do you know when he had his teeth done? He may need another floating, and possibly by someone else (dentist vs. vet). I would make sure that someone has had a really good look inside his mouth and checked everything really thoroughly. It is easy for them to get foreign objects in there, crack teeth, etc.
If his teeth (and gums and tongue) are ok, it could be the bit. Check to see if it is pinching his lips, or otherwise fits incorrectly. It could be the type of bit too - a lot of TBs have a lower palette and the nutcracker action of a snaffle hurts. A 3-piece bit like a French link can be more comfortable, or else a mullen mouth. Barring all of the above, he may just not be able to cope with a bit for whatever reason and you can try a hackamore and see how he handles that.
ETA: Are other people able to bridle him without this tantrum? If so, he's got your number and I'd try the bucket approach that jlee described.
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Post by Allison - on Apr 16, 2010 13:43:33 GMT -5
How about swap your regimen a bit? I know don't eat with a bit in the mouth. BUT if you could bridle him and then give him some feed afterwards maybe that would work as some postitive reinforcement? I dont' feed and then put them to work either for what it's worth.
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Post by Rusty on Apr 16, 2010 14:58:46 GMT -5
All good ideas. I agree with others that knowing why he's resisting is important (maybe something hurts or he objects to being taken from his feed). Is the evasion that he clamps his teeth/lips shut, or that he raises his head so you can't reach, or that he tosses it around so much the bridle keeps getting knocked out of position? Once you are sure it's not a pain issue maybe try the little encouraging tricks (if clamped lips, wiggling your thumb onto his gum where the bridle will rest would encourage him to open; if he's head tossing you could work on developing a strategic 'hug' of his head using your right arm and holding firmly onto the bony part of his nose).
Here are a few other ideas that might be worth a try depending on what you think is going on.
1. I rode a school horse that developed ear warts and became defensively resistant to bridling. It wasn't the bit, it was the bending of that one ear. While the ear was being treated we simply unhooked one side of the bit and were really careful about getting the bridle over the sore ear first, w/o touching it, then slipping bit in and re-attaching. Horse was completely happy and co-operative with this arrangement. The other ear was a non-issue.
2. We also don't feed grain just before working them or bridle them unless they've had a chance to eat the bulk of their hay. If schedules aren't flexible and it's meal time they get some hay and maybe a handful of their grain (they get the rest later) so they don't think they were skipped or passed over. A horse with a few wisps of hay still on the ground has a natural interest in getting his head back down, rather than up, so that might help keep him within a range you can work with. If you're stuck with grain feeding can you lower the feed tub just before you bridle?
3. I know very little about western techniques, but one rider I know puts her right arm over the top of the horse's lowered neck, near the ears, thus the bridle is wide open and slips easily upward; not like the english bridling where we sort of have the sides of the bridle held together until the bit is in. Maybe this type of wider open bridle would be more inviting to him?
4. Can you work on bridling separately from meal times and riding? Just practice bridling and reward all small improvements?
Good luck.
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Post by niaru on Apr 16, 2010 17:57:00 GMT -5
Hmmm I'm glad I never had horses like that, being 5'2...lol When I was a kid having to tack up these huge WBs (most were smarta$$ school horses) I'd take a carrot or other treat and bribe them into lowering their heads! If I had that problem I would go the "stand on bucket" route, and I would make sure nothing is hurting him (Rusty is right, it may not be his teeth bothering him, but his ears, or some other thing!) I also would not feed before tacking up but I'd use the grain as a reward for good "bridling" behavior. I know there is a way to teach the horses to lower their heads on cue. I never had the patience for that, considering treats worked so well
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Post by fancyhorse on Apr 17, 2010 10:30:31 GMT -5
i would try two things. first one i would try is to bridle him in his stall with his but in the corner. if that fails, then id unhook one side of the bridle at the bit, put the headstall on, then try to slip the bit in and reattach it to the bridle. there is hope, had a geldinb that was the same way, took about a good two weeks of dissassembiling the bridle before he would let us put it on normal.
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Post by basquemom on Apr 17, 2010 12:44:42 GMT -5
Fancyhorse, good suggestions. That's what worked with my old guy back when he was a young guy. My trainer decided to beat him the reins one day when he started to step away from the mounting block. Fudge didn't want anything to do with a bridle after that.
Would drop the bit on one side, then but a bit of carrot on my hand with the bit. Eventually, bridling became a non-issue and he got so he would drop his head and willing open his mouth for the bit.
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Post by kdcarpe on Apr 19, 2010 22:30:57 GMT -5
Today was better. I fed him a handful of grain before we began, so he wouldnt think i forgot about it as he kept looking for his bucket. I tried putting grain in my hand to trick him and he caught on. His problem is he simply stretches upwards. I think hes just old and being a pain but I am going to have my uncle look at his teeth when I get him home from college. Hes doing really well in the saddle though! Thanks for the suggestions!
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Post by diane on Apr 21, 2010 9:46:10 GMT -5
all have good suggestions.. I like the treat ones best.... maybe try some honey or molasses on the bit ?
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Post by kdcarpe on Apr 22, 2010 21:50:02 GMT -5
Diane, IC doesnt like treats. Ive been briddling him before almost every meal and making him eat before class with his bit in. If he lets me put it in okay, I will take it out. If he fights me I will leave it in. (He doesnt eat a whole lot with it in. And he doesnt get a lot of grain before class btw...)I think he finally understands and I think we are finally coming to a compromise.
Thanks for the suggestions!
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Post by juliab on Apr 23, 2010 11:49:33 GMT -5
Have you tried putting a peppermint in your hand with the bit? Let him see you unwrapping it. The sound of a peppermint being unwrapped is hard to resist for most OTTBs and he is going to be looking for the mint and you could try popping it into his mouth along with the bit.
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Post by kdcarpe on Jun 4, 2010 10:23:14 GMT -5
We have quickly resolved this problem. I moved him close to home after graduation and had an equine dentist(my uncle) look at his teeth. They were 2 1/2 times to big. It took the dentist over two hours to get his mouth in order. It now takes about 30 seconds to bridle him.
Many people dont think of their horses needing actual dental checkups. He saidthe teeth being to wide is a very common problem that can cause major problems. Most people dont think of their teeth being to wide...They think the sharp edges just need to be filed down.
In addition to no bridling issues, he is eating his grain and grazing a lot better(Hes gaining a noticeable ammount of weight now!!). He doesnt hold his neck as high when we ride. His movements are a lot more collected. Hes much more willing to get up and go now(We ran for the first time a couple days ago!) and is MUCH more willing to stop. People have also commented that he looks much better overall after his dental work. Instead of hardly getting around the pasture, he now trots around everywhere.
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