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Post by kdcarpe on Mar 7, 2010 0:28:11 GMT -5
I am currently a 21 year old student studying equine science in Miami, Ok. I grew up watching Thoroughbred racing as a child, but am just now learning the mechanics behind it. I have taken on my first Thoroughbred(affectionately known as IC for Ice Eagle). He has been out of training for 7 years, but has been raced about 25 times. He has won at least 6 races. He stands about 15.3 hands and is a beautiful red color with a nice white blaze. IC was on pasture rest for 7 years and was fed nothing but hay. I am currently feeding him about 3-4 times a day to help him gain weight. He has a vet appointment on Tuesday.
IC is a very sweet horse. Thursday I really got to know him...The first time in the corral he let me walk right up to him and halter him. He is not "body shy." He lets people walk and run all around him. He has never offered to kick or nip and took a western saddle VERY well. He did not take to his bit to well, but I think thats because his teeth need to be floated, which will be done on Tuesday...
We do have some immediate problems that I need some advice on though...When mounted without a headstall(to see if he would tolerate weight...boyfriends idea.)he kind of prances around. Also, we were wondering what type of bit we should start him under.
Also, what is the best way to get him to gain weight? Like I stated before he was previously eating just hay and grass in the pasture. At the moment he has been getting two scoops of grain 2-3 times a day and has access to plenty of hay as well as a mineral block...
Any help would be appreciated as he is my first off the track horse to work with...Thanks!
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Post by Goalie on Mar 7, 2010 8:57:48 GMT -5
Welcome to exracers.
What type of grain are you giving?
in fact I'm going to move this to the main board so more will see.
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Post by Big Tee© on Mar 7, 2010 9:11:47 GMT -5
Well, dang, Goalie, NOW i gotta go copy-paste my post!!! SHeesh!!!ROFLMAO
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Post by Big Tee© on Mar 7, 2010 9:12:18 GMT -5
First, feed. How much grain are you feeding him in POUNDS and how much hay? Nnot all scoops are equal, the only scoop I have holds maybe a cup because it is for cat food. and there are scoops that hold many pounds........so weigh the feed. Horses should have 1-2% of their body weight in good quality forage, and if grain is fed, no more than 5 pounds per feeding. Are you feeding straight oats or have you succumbed to advert hype and bought something pricey? Also, remember, race horses, regardless of breed, are generally built differently so don't go by looks alone - if you see ribs, feed more but if you can only feel them, the weight is right. I suspect this horse needs work more than feed as muscle mass has decreased and he is soft and lanky looking.
Before you do anything as far as riding him goes, get those teeth done, then worry about bits etc. Do ground work with him - lots of it. Hang a mullen mouth snaffle in his mouth and see how he likes it. Do some ground driving, longeing, get him to lead from both sides. He will not be used to having much done from the off side because it isnt done at the track (I still have nightmares about cross-hatching to pick feet). Saddle and unsaddle him, teach him voice commands. You are starting a "baby" despite him racing - racing is NOT the same as riding just because he was sat on and steered around the track at speed so, treat him like he knows nothing.
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Post by Luci on Mar 7, 2010 9:33:09 GMT -5
Great advice from Big Tee as usual. Welcome to exracers and congrats on your horse!
Do you know why he was on pasture rest for 7 years? Just wondering if you knew for sure he was sound for riding.
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Post by TeachU2Ride on Mar 7, 2010 10:28:22 GMT -5
A series of lessons with a quality professional instructor (preferably one who enjoys working with OTTBs) will be a HUGE help in getting started with your guy. An experienced eye will easily pick up on the issues and be able to offer a good strategy for re-training. It's an investment worth making. As to your immediate questions: Any horse who's been out of work for seven years is bound to be a bit unsettled and anxious as work is reintroduced. But a horse whose last experience was race training must be given some special consideration. He was last taught that being mounted meant going out to work on the track, for long jogs and canters, and of course at speed, without any need to balance and bend for small turns, circles, etc. He may not have been taught to move away from leg pressure, and was taught that leaning down and into the bit was okay. There are several good books available - Retraining the Race Horse, for one - to give you an idea of what he was used to in his former life, as well as tips for re-starting him in a new discipline. Reading won't take the place of good lessons, but it definitely helps you learn faster. Fitting a bit takes a little detective work. Carefully open his mouth and observe the size of his tongue... how ridge-y and high/low his palate is... the width of the bars (fleshy or sharp?) and the general amount of room in his mouth. A horse with a "full" mouth (fat tongue, low palate, fleshy bars) is often most comfortable in a bit with a small-diameter mouthpiece. A horse with a low, ridge-y palate is often most comfortable in a bit with a double jointed or Mullen mouthpiece. Adjust your bit on the headstall so you see just one or two wrinkles at the corners of the lips if you are using a snaffle mouthpiece. If you are using a Mullen or a curb mouthpiece, the bit should not create wrinkles at the corners of the lips. If you are using a bit with shanks and curb chain for leverage, be sure the curb chain (or strap) hangs softly in the chin groove when the reins are free of pressure. Finally, make sure the bit is wide enough. You should be able to clearly see a little of the mouthpiece sticking out of both sides of the lips.
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Post by Inga on Mar 7, 2010 10:35:42 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. Since nobody else mentioned it... Pictures are a must. Can't wait to see and hear more about your IC.
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Post by eventermomoh on Mar 7, 2010 13:02:29 GMT -5
Welcome! I am also new here and have purchased my first OTTB this past fall. I also have App. QH. I've already found this board to be a helpful, fun, and supportive crew.
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Post by animaldoc on Mar 7, 2010 13:21:03 GMT -5
Congrats!
We need pics....
You might check out a book like Beyond the Track (or there are a few others out there) - a good place to start with your basic questions....
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Post by kdcarpe on Mar 7, 2010 14:10:26 GMT -5
I know the owner...I work for her. He was put to pasture rest because he no longer had a job. She said he should be sound for riding...He stopped racing when he was 4 or 5...And I think it was bc of his age, although he had 6 or 7 wins out of about 25 runs. If you want to look at him...Look up Ice Eagle on the Jockey club and he was foaled in 94. IC is fed aout 3 scoops(.75 gallons) 4 times a day as we are trying to put immediate weight on him. He is on a pelleted feed with cracked corn. He also gets safechoice and sweet feed mixed in with his food as he gets jealous of my other horses food who is only fed twice a day. I just bought vegetable oil to put in his feed and will start that tonight in an attempt to get some added fat in him. I have also read that it hels with inflammation, skin, coat and hoof health. I will start weighing his feed tonight. Goalie...He is not in to great of shape. You can see ribs, but its not to bad. The lady who raced him said he was always very hard to keep in shape though. Like I said earlier, he seems to be a quick learner. I think he has figured out what woah means after about 30 minutes and was starting to get back up. Me and my boyfriend also got him to where he wont move a terrible when he tried to mount him. And like i said before...I will post pictures of my baby IC...
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Post by Luci on Mar 7, 2010 16:44:35 GMT -5
He sounds like a great horse and a fun grown-up baby to bring along. IC is fed aout 3 scoops(.75 gallons) 4 times a day as we are trying to put immediate weight on him. He is on a pelleted feed with cracked corn. He also gets safechoice and sweet feed mixed in with his food as he gets jealous of my other horses food who is only fed twice a day. I just bought vegetable oil to put in his feed and will start that tonight in an attempt to get some added fat in him. I have also read that it hels with inflammation, skin, coat and hoof health. I will start weighing his feed tonight. That seems to me like a lot of grain. Is there a reason you are feeding the pelleted feed with corn and Safechoise and a sweet feed? I understand that you want to add weight and have probably done some research. I would really suggest checking the threads on this board about adding weight because they are so tuned into Thoroughbreds. Most of us have had experience with just what you are dealing with. The key is to add a balanced increase of calories without making the horse nuts and throwing off mineral balance. Think of a kid after drinking koolaid, donuts, and Halloween candy. No matter how behaved the kid is, they have to expend energy. Some of my favorites for fat are Cool Calories-loved this for the hot TB I owned and flax. For helping weight issues, beet pulp, rice bran, and extra grass hay. I also like adding probiotics and in some cases, ulcer treatments. I added more alfalfa alfalfa cubes at one time for my OTTB, but he was a much better citizen when I cut that out, bumped up his grass hay instead.
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Post by BoyleHeightsKid on Mar 7, 2010 17:09:11 GMT -5
I agree with Luci that what you're feeding him sounds like a lot of grain. I would stay away from the cracked corn and sweetfeed ( my opinion) A high fat, low starch, low sugar diet is best to put on weight and keep it without him getting high on his feed. Most commericial brands of sweetfeed are very high in starch and sugar. I know a few on this board that feed sweetfeed, but it's a custom formula mixed by the feed mill with no corn and very little molassas. Vegetable oil is a good, cheap way to add "cool calories" but is loaded with omega 6's which can actually contribute to inflammation. Don't feed more than 2 cups a day because it can hinder absorbtion. Omega 3's are what naturally help to reduce inflammation. Do a search on this forum about adding weight. You will find a lot of information. Welcome to the board and good luck with your new guy
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Post by Big Tee© on Mar 7, 2010 21:12:37 GMT -5
.75 gallon may not be a lot of grain at all, the key is weight, not volume. Not that anyone would ever feed canary seed, an ice cream pail of that weighs very little, but the same volume of oats (my home grown stuff) weighs about 6 pounds and the same of lentils is closer to 10. Volume doesn't mean a thing - wetter style sweet feed weighs more than a type that is dry, and pelleted beet pulp weighs a whole lot more than the same volume of shredded; the ONLY grain that measures weight and volume ounce for ounce is flax. Personally, I do not feed sweet feed as most is an inglorious mess of garbage grains - shorts, screenings and odd leftover pellets from other horse feed runs all bound together with molasses, not that molasses is a bad thing (high in copper, necessary for iron metabolism) but if it is binding junk together, it isnt doing much good. Corn, on the other hand, can harbour a mould that is really not a good thing - don't ask, I cannot remember the mould name other than corn mould - as this causes some serious health problems in all livestock.
In general, race horses of all breeds can tolerate more grain, and indeed some seem to require it, than other breeds of horses. What is fed on and off track would make the feet fall off your typical Quarter Horse or other saddle 'pony', but without, certain individuals in both Standardbred and Thorougbred breeds just cannot keep weight on without grain. Those individuals also don't get silly on what is considered huge amounts of grain. My own Donnie is a good example, he NEEDS the concetrated calories of grain and because of the heaps of snow, hasn't been getting it and he is losing weight - he cannot consume enough forage to meet his needs; he also doesn't think oil proper food, and tips his beet pulp if I give oil to him and Rambo doesnt need all those calories. Feeding has to be done on an individual basis, and it can be a great experiment finding out what is tolerated, what isn't and what they consider 'poison'. All the hay and grass they can eat is fine and well but, remember, there are exceptions that do need grain. My grain of choice is always straight oats, and when I can get them, I also throw in about 8 ounces (weight) of lentils and the same of flax along with dry molasses as there is no copper in the soil here, but lots of iron.
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Post by easychoice on Mar 7, 2010 22:09:00 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, as you've already seen there's a lot of good quality help here. For weight, my guy gets 2 large cottage cheese containers of beet pulp, 2 containers of rice bran, 1 and 1/2 cups of veg oil and probiotics in the evenings. I put enough water into it to cover all and let it sit for 1/2 hour. Oh, I also put a few horse treats into it too. He LOVES it and gets excited when he sees me with that special bucket. He's filled out beautifully and his coat is the softest and shiniest in the barn :-)
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Post by kdcarpe on Mar 8, 2010 0:03:20 GMT -5
I just got in from seeing Mr IC...Today I got him some liquid feed that is drinkable or can be mixed with feed. It is supposed to have tons of vitamins and minerals and fats and is supposed to be very healthy for him. I mixed it in with his pellets and he really seemed to like it a lot. Owner said he was a very nice horse. He got raced then the TRAINER had a heart attack, worked with him again, then fell ill again so he kind of got pushed to the side. But he was sound when they stopped racing him.
Im feeding him a large ammount of grain because his owner said he was very hard to keep. With grain I can see how much he is taking in. His grain has cracked corn in it. I am also going to start adding 1/4 cup of vegetable oil to his feed until he gets some weight on him. He is also continuing to eat all the bermuda/alfalfa/grass mix hay he wants.
I am considering adding either beef pulp, flaxseed or rice bran to his diet to help him out with weight along with this liquid feed.
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